Bacon question for first time

tooth · Post by **tooth** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 04:35

I bought 5 lbs of pork belly and cut them into 2 different pieces. I used the basic dry cure recipe from the Ruhlman book, but parsed it down into a much smaller batch.

1lb salt
13 oz dextrose
3 oz pink salt

I dry rubbed them and put into a ziplock in the fridge, turning and massaging every day for 4 or so days. I then added a little water per Chuckwagon's sons of bee's honey bacon recipe. Today a little over a week later, I took them out, rinsed them off and sliced a few thick slices and fried them up. I was a little disappointed in the taste. It was not really all that salty like most bacon, and it actually tasted a lot like ham.

I read about Bad Bob's bacon CW has a recipe for, and it says to salt, rinse after 6 days and then salt it again. I also saw some photos on the Makin Bacon thread at the top of the forum page for smoked pork products and most people seemed to use a heck of a lot more rub than I did.

So my question is- is it safe to re-salt, this time adding some honey and brown sugar along with the normal cure for another few days, then smoking? Or should I plan to smoke it immediately and since it's already been in the fridge on salt and brine for a week. Then I would just have low-salt bacon? Also, should I be injecting these w/ the brine? None of the recipes I read said to inject, but the outside of the belly meat was less pink than the inside which also seemed weird.

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 06:09

I am a little surprised that they call for twenty percent salt. I generally use 2% salt and .25% cure#1 and 1% brown sugar in a zipper bag turned and massaged every day for two weeks. Rinsed and dried and smoked for 12 hours and baked in the oven at 170°F until the internal temperature hits 140°F

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:10

Hey Tooth,
Why in the world would you use the ingredients in the Ruhlman recipe, change the volume yourself, then use the instructions for my recipe... then tell everyone you are disappointed? Then you read yet another recipe and compared it to your original choice. You complain about the first one not having enough salty taste but failed to identify it as Ruhllman`s recipe and you pointed out it tastes like ham.
Tooth, my recipe contains sugar, pepper, maple, and honey. These ingredients contain two sugars that alter the proteins just as much as the salt does in your Ruhllman`s recipe. You are comparing oranges with apples! You are trying to make Chev parts fit a Ford engine.

My question is this... Why in the world would you even compare the two or try to make them compatible? Why would you use Ruhlmans recipe then tell everyone that you used my instructions for processing then tell everyone you were disappointed in the taste? Also, my recipe is a dry-cured bacon recipe and says nothing about brining. Where did that idea come from? It seems to me that you are jumping around comparing different recipes, then trying to hit upon a combination for all of them. That`s a sure technique for disaster.
May I suggest that you settle on one method and list of ingredients listed in one recipe, and proceed with that? Then if you are disappointed, you can point your finger at one source.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

tooth · Post by **tooth** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 13:38

Ross- that cure mix was enough for a lot more than 5 lbs of meat. I cut it in 1/2 since I didn't need so much extra cure laying around and dry rubbed the meat as most of the recipes/instructions had said. I have leftovers of the mixture after making 5 lbs of meat still.

Chuckwagon- I did not mean to offend! I was not saying my disappointment was your fault or a result of your recipe, I will take the full blame. You're exactly correct, I looked at a few recipes and techniques and tried to meld them together. Bad idea in hindsight I guess. This was my first bacon attempt, and I wanted to keep it simple and have sort of a base recipe and taste to build off of later. That is why I was looking at the Ruhlman recipe since it was very basic. Heck, basic is in the name! I figured after my first batch I could tell what the bacon was like without all the ingredients you used, and then add additional sugar/spices to my liking. I didn't factor in the fact that the sugars have as much impact on the protein as the salt. I am new to this so please forgive me.

Again Chuckwagon- I was definitely not saying my disappointment was directed at you or your recipes, I know your recipes here are fantastic.

In regards to your question about comparing recipes and techniques- there's many ways to skin a cat, and many ways to make bacon or cure meats, right? I looked at a few different ways to see the various techniques that were mentioned on this site in addition to a book I have. I realize that was an error to try and work multiple techniques into 1 recipe, I will stick to a single recipe the next time. But I was simply using those other techniques and recipes as a comparison after a week in a ziplock and is why I mentioned the other 2 recipes of yours. The only melding of techniques I've actually done so far was to add a little water to the bag after a few days- as it's mentioned to do in the sons of bees recipe- since the meat didn't release a whole lot of water. I have the bellies sitting in the fridge wrapped up, ready to be doctored up some more or destined for the garbage. Depends on what others here say.

Now if I can ask- is there any way of salvaging what I have or should I scrap and start over?

sambal badjak · Post by **sambal badjak** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 13:40

I don't think he is trying to blame anyone, but just trying to find out what went wrong, if it can be solved, and what to do next time.
There is so much conflicting info out there, that it can seem overwhelming, esp for us beginners.
It took me a long time to even get the courage to start!

@tooth,
Have you got/read Marianski's books? They go much more into detail than ruhlman's charcuterie. I bought mine on kindle and eventually bought the hard copy as well.
And Chuck has a point, esp as a beginner it is wise to follow one recipe, ask questions here, finetune if necessary and go ahead.
Then try another recipe, ask questions etc etc (you get the point)

Good luck!

tooth · Post by **tooth** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 13:48

Thanks Sambal- you're right, definitely no finger pointing except at myself. But I would like to know if it's worth trying to mess with any further. Regardless, I think a trip to the meat market on Saturday is in order to grab a couple more bellies for me to try again on. This time following the recipe to a T!

I have Marianski's book about smokehouses. I knew I needed the other one, I guess it's high time I pony up for a copy.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 15:11

Hi Tooth,
I didn`t take offense. Shucks pard, you couldn`t offend me with an axe! I was just really curious why you would jump around like that. I really believe you would be happy with one recipe or another if you would follow a few of them out to the end then choose the one you are happy with. I wish you only the best, pal. We are here to help and by writing in, you have indeed learned a few things already about a successful bacon recipe. Good luck with your project.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 15:26

My experience in all things new has convinced me that following the instructions from someone with experience is the fastest pathway to success. After Tooth post last night I was reviewing my experience in making butt slab bacon and decided that I have done about 40 pieces by the same basic process changing things slightly along the way. My slabs weigh about 3 pounds and fit nicely into a gallon size zipper freezer bag. I am told by others that I have gotten it right now.

sawhorseray · Post by **sawhorseray** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 18:44

This thread makes me realize everything I've ever smoked has been by the guidelines set forth by either Rytec or CW. I paste and copy each of CW's instructions into WORD and print them out, read and re-read them every time I smoke anything, then follow the directions explicitly. I've never been disappointed with the results, a raging success every single time, my friends and family think I'm a meat-smoking genius. Only my wife knows that all the credit should go to Chuckwagon, and she's sworn to secrecy. RAY

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 20:44

Tooth has some concerns that cured belly slabs taste rather like ham. Almost any meat cured with salt, sugar and nitrite will taste like ham. Even turkey thighs cured in this manner taste like ham.
One of the things that I applaud Stanley Marianski for was his decision to make all of his recipes based on a kilogram of meat. Meat is costly and it comes from animals so I consider it to be a moral problem when we waste it. When we are learning we don't need to practice on 20 pounds of meat at a time.

tooth · Post by **tooth** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 21:48

ssorllih wrote:Tooth has some concerns that cured belly slabs taste rather like ham. Almost any meat cured with salt, sugar and nitrite will taste like ham. Even turkey thighs cured in this manner taste like ham.
One of the things that I applaud Stanley Marianski for was his decision to make all of his recipes based on a kilogram of meat. Meat is costly and it comes from animals so I consider it to be a moral problem when we waste it. When we are learning we don't need to practice on 20 pounds of meat at a time.

Well it hasn't been smoked yet, I'm sure that will help it taste more like bacon once finished. I now realize a good amount of brown sugar or other sugars would've helped. Live and learn.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 14:11

This thread makes me realize everything I've ever smoked has been by the guidelines set forth by either Rytec or CW. I paste and copy each of CW's instructions into WORD and print them out, read and re-read them every time I smoke anything, then follow the directions explicitly. I've never been disappointed with the results, a raging success every single time, my friends and family think I'm a meat-smoking genius. Only my wife knows that all the credit should go to Chuckwagon, and she's sworn to secrecy. RAY

Ray, you are too kind. Your post almost brought me to tears. Thank you for those kind words my friend. I wish you only the best. I hope "our" dog is doing well. Any further news from the vet?

Tooth, the sugar will make a huge difference in the bacon as it alters proteins. I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Now, "back up and hit it again"!

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

sawhorseray · Post by **sawhorseray** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 17:08

The Boo is doing fine and living in the lap of luxury. The vet says she'll get a little lump or two over time but nothing that will keep her from living to a ripe old age. Thanks for inquiring CW, and thanks for doing all you do do! RAY