Ham vs canadian bacon

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pignout
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Ham vs canadian bacon

Post by pignout » Thu Dec 31, 2015 00:41

Can some stop my head from spinning. I want to make my own recipes and wanting to know what and why im doing things. so, Can someone clarify why if doing ham you use 120g cure per gal water and roughly 51g in Canadian bacon. Thanx KD
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Thu Dec 31, 2015 01:39

Hmm, 120g is the standard pickle amount and I don't think it differs whether it's a ham or loin. Which recipe calls for 51g.?
pignout
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ham vs Canadian bacon

Post by pignout » Thu Dec 31, 2015 01:47

Canadian Bacon
Cured Pork Loin - (Ham)

2 - six pound pork loins
1 gallon ice water
6 ounces powdered dextrose
8 ounces kosher salt
8 level teaspoons (2 ounces) Prague Powder #1. (American strength 6.25% sodium
nitrite and 93.75% sodium chloride. For Polish Peklosol, the note below*
This is on your site from CW
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Butterbean
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Post by Butterbean » Thu Dec 31, 2015 05:16

pignout wrote:Can some stop my head from spinning. I want to make my own recipes and wanting to know what and why im doing things. so, Can someone clarify why if doing ham you use 120g cure per gal water and roughly 51g in Canadian bacon. Thanx KD
There is no right or wrong way to do it. Important thing is to stay within the guidelines. The label on the Cure 1 the sausage maker sells recommends using 85 grams per gallon. Though 120 g may be considered standard it is not the only method.

If you read further in CW's process he is also injecting 10% of the meat's weight with brine. This is full strength and not diluted which could be why he chose to use a milder cure. He then says to remove it after five days. You could accomplish the same thing with no injection using 85 grams of cure and a seven day brine and a day's rest to equalize. Here is what this cure looks like.

Image

120 grams would could have been used as well and would have probably given it a rosier color.

Which one is better? Mine of course cause I made it. Just kidding.

The best advice I can give you is to forget what everyone is doing because all that's going to do is lead to confusion and frustration and your time will be consumed chasing recipes instead of learning. Find a brine recipe and try it and adjust it till you have the color and saltiness that you like. From there you can start experimenting with other recipes but when you do this the only thing you will be using from their recipe is their spices.

Of course you will want to come up with your own process for each meat thickness but that's no big deal.

Hope this makes sense.
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canadian bacon vs ham

Post by pignout » Thu Dec 31, 2015 05:35

I inject 10% in most cured products. I'll ave to do the math but wll asume then that both fall between (i believe usds 120 and 200 ppm). My pee brain has a hard time computing why I pump a ham (10%) that had 120g cure per gal of h2o and a loin (10%pump) with only 50 (45.2 as per recipe on your site. Thanks for help. KD
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Post by pignout » Thu Dec 31, 2015 06:20

if my math is correct this recipe is under 90ppm yes?
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:05

Kevin, the recipe you cited above asks for 2oz of #1. Based on this calculator, http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... calculator that is almost 57g. And yes that is lower than what most other recipes call for, and works out to less than 120ppm. The Cure #1 that I buy, specifies 3oz or 85g. for cover pickle and like Butterbean, that is what I use. 4.2oz in one gallon of water, according to Stan Marianski, works out to 200ppm of nitrite, max allowable in the US and Canada. Take a look at this video tutorial. https://vimeo.com/90169552
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Butterbean
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Re: canadian bacon vs ham

Post by Butterbean » Thu Dec 31, 2015 16:40

pignout wrote:I inject 10% in most cured products. I'll ave to do the math but wll asume then that both fall between (i believe usds 120 and 200 ppm). My pee brain has a hard time computing why I pump a ham (10%) that had 120g cure per gal of h2o and a loin (10%pump) with only 50 (45.2 as per recipe on your site. Thanks for help. KD
Maybe this will be helpful.
As a matter of policy, the Agency requires a minimum of 120 ppm of ingoing nitrite in all cured
"Keep Refrigerated" products, unless the establishment can demonstrate that safety is assured by
some other preservation process, such as thermal processing, pH or moisture control. This 120
ppm policy for ingoing nitrite is based on safety data reviewed when the bacon standard was
developed.
There is no regulatory minimum ingoing nitrite level for cured products that have been processed
to ensure their shelf stability (such as having undergone a complete thermal process, or having
been subjected to adequate pH controls, and/or moisture controls in combination with appropriate
packaging). However, 40 ppm nitrite is useful in that it has some preservative effect. This
amount has also been shown to be sufficient for color-fixing purposes and to achieve the expected
cured meat or poultry appearance
. Some thermally processed shelf-stable (canned) products have
a minimum ingoing nitrite level that must be monitored because it is specified as a critical factor in
the product's process schedule.
CW's process calls for baking the loin to an internal temp of 150F so in a sense he is using the cure more as a marinade to achieve the color and flavor expected. This, I think, is a lot different than curing a ham that you will actually cure for shelf stability and possibly heat later.

Lets pose another question. What do you think your nitrite concentration would be if you chose to use the 200 ppm maximum in your brine and you used some sexy high priced imported sea salt? Many of these sea salts contain nitrates. Would this make your product unsafe? It would definitely have more nitrates than what is allowed by law and if were selling it and it were tested you would have to bin the whole batch. Granted though, it would have far less nitrite than is found in many so-called nitrite-free bacon. And pound for pound it would have far less nitrates than your leafy greens. But would it be unsafe? Just saying.

Again, I go back to you finding what works best for you and sticking with it. Life will be much simpler. There is a range you can use so there really is no right or wrong answer and for home production the only person you have to please is yourself.

Of course if you are selling it you need to closely adhere to the USDA guidelines not because using a tad too much would be unsafe but because of the liability you'd incur from non-compliance whether it had anything to do with the issue at hand or not. The exception being, if you are making nitrite-free bacon. In this case, the maximum doesn't seem to apply since the nitrates used in the production of nitrite-free meats come from nature and somehow the rules of chemistry doesn't apply. I call these green nitrates and since it is illegal to make hams or bacon without the use of nitrates I guess these green nitrates have there place but the whole concept makes me pull my hair.
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canadian bacon vs ham

Post by pignout » Thu Dec 31, 2015 21:13

Gentlemen, Thank you for your time and efforts. Butterbeans post knocked a clot loose in my brain and I have more of an understanding now. I really try to do things the right way and when I see things done by people I respect and trust doing things different then what i thought were the rules(and not knowing the reason why) it sends my head spinning! In this situation there are some grey areas where I thought it was straight Black and White. Once again thank you for your assistance and As always, they are very much appreciated. Your humble groupy, KD Ps both hams and c bacon turned out great!!!!!
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