Cold Smoke and Spoilage

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Scogar
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Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by Scogar » Thu Feb 11, 2021 02:48

Hypothetical - take a pork loin, ham, or bacon. Properly cure it, wet or dry, with salt and cure #1. Now the question, the intent is to cold smoke it for some period of time, and the ambient temp in the smoker hits about 90F due to solar radiation. I would imagine in the south US this could happen on a daily basis even in the winter. Does the temp spike cause a concern? Being that cold smoking can take place over a number of days is there some guidance on this? I mean you may have the meat in the smokehouse for some time depending upon the cut being smoked.
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by bluc » Thu Feb 11, 2021 03:45

Think cold smoking is supposed to be 25c max 77f
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by jjnurk » Thu Feb 11, 2021 13:51

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7993&start=30&sid=8 ... e540990656

The above thread has a nice discussion on cold smoking.
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by Scogar » Thu Feb 11, 2021 15:14

Great thread jjnurk, thanks. It sounds like on your earlier experience you hit temps of 30C. But also the number of days theoretical meats can stay in the smoker would seem to lessen my concern. The specifics of my situation are that I am making a Kasselerbraten...so it will be fully cooked underneath a bed of sauerkraut at a later date. The problem here in ATL for coldsmoking is that if the sun is up, it is going to affect my smoker temperature...I can't help that. I have dialed things in to minimize temp increase from smoke and hitting 30C wasn't steady state it was just a high point. Today it will be overcast and rainy so even though the temp is 15-16C it shouldn't add any heat.

I guess my question could have been better worded...let's say I smoke for 10 days, 30 days,......100 days and my temps remain good (except for that one spike) where does the meat start to go bad on you? Based upon the link you provided I believe the following happens: First the inside of the roast is sterile whereas the outside has whatever bacteria it picks up. But at the same time the smoke is both a preservative and a dryer, so the way the world works is that the meat is somewhat protected by the smoke and cure #1 AND before it really has a chance to go bad, it is drying out too. Once dried it is stable. So really cold smoking is nothing more than a smoky drying chamber.

Proper meat handling, cure, temperature, and the laws of nature result in the meat getting to the good side of things before it has a chance to go to the bad side of things.
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by StefanS » Thu Feb 11, 2021 15:42

Scogar wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 15:14
The specifics of my situation are that I am making a Kasselerbraten...so it will be fully cooked underneath a bed of sauerkraut at a later date.
so why you want use cold smoking in that case? The pork loin will be fully cooked anyway so why you want to make it more difficult to prepare that meat with cold smoking?
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by Scogar » Thu Feb 11, 2021 20:59

I thought when you make a kasseler that you cold smoke it only. Not hot smoke, and then you cook it later. I may be mistaken and will have to look at the recipe again. I was following Red's recipeviewtopic.php?f=10&t=9291&hilit=kasseler
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by jcflorida » Thu Feb 11, 2021 22:10

I don't know whether the kasseler needs to be cold smoked or not. However, even here in central Florida night time temperatures for most of the year are below 26ºC (79ºF) for 8 or more hours. For example, last night it was below 21ºC from 11:00pm until 8:00am. I can keep heat addition to 5ºC in the smoke box I use, so it works so long as I cold smoke at night (sometimes over several days). It's trickier in the summer, but still possible except in June-September.
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by Scogar » Thu Feb 11, 2021 22:53

Yeah today with overcast and rain (which I earlier thought was bad but now see worked in my favor) that the smoker never exceeded 63F over the 8 hours of smoke I added today and ambient outside was probably pretty much the same. It's the sun, but you know that in FL
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by redzed » Fri Feb 12, 2021 01:49

Traditional kasseler is cold smoked. Some may be warm smoked at a temp of 120-135, so it is considered as prep-cooked. Either way, you still need to cook it before consuming. If warm smoking, 3 hours should be enough, otherwise the loin will be dry after you cook it.
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by StefanS » Fri Feb 12, 2021 14:03

I understood your confuse, what I'm saying is that in very specific dish like yours
Scogar wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 15:14
fully cooked underneath a bed of sauerkraut
it is not worthwhile to do that long specific preparation. Sauerkraut is very specific "killer other tastes". Just IMHO.
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by redzed » Fri Feb 12, 2021 17:25

StefanS wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 14:03
it is not worthwhile to do that long specific preparation. Sauerkraut is very specific "killer other tastes". Just IMHO.
I have to agree here. Sauerkraut is a perfect and classic pairing with kasseler, but should be served on the side.
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by Scogar » Fri Feb 12, 2021 18:42

Understood Stefan and Red...there was a restaurant in Munich that I used to go to that placed Kasseler Ripchen on the bottom of a pan after browning a bit. They then baked it with sauerkraut, onion, and a bit of apple...some white wine - I liked it, the kraut softened the kasseler, and the kasseler lent some smoke to the kraut. It is a go to for me, perhaps it was a way to use some gnarly kasseler??? Not sure, but making my own instead of buying does allow me to make this and to make kasseler with kraut on the side. But I will also pan fry up a batch with kraut on the side.

In any event your knowledge and experince has helped me on this trajectory
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by redzed » Fri Feb 12, 2021 19:49

Nothing wrong with doing that. As long as we are being safe, we can experiment all we like and eat what we like. The concept of "real truth" does not apply to the culinary world.
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by Scogar » Sun Feb 14, 2021 23:59

So here is the kasslerbraten:
After 24 hours on white oak smoke. 3 days of 8 hours. Image

Sliced and then pan fried Image
Image
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Re: Cold Smoke and Spoilage

Post by redzed » Mon Feb 15, 2021 02:00

Geez, that makes me hungry! Can you give us the curing details?
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