Skin On Pancetta?

story28 · Post by **story28** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 17:01

I have been comparing recipes from different books covering sausage making and charcuterie. Three consecutive recipes for pancetta called for curing the pork belly with the skin on, only to remove it after the curing was done and the belly was rinsed.

What is the purpose for the practice? If skin inhibits salt penetration, which in turn increases curing time, what benefit(s) could leaving the skin on during curing provide?

crustyo44 · Post by **crustyo44** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 01:35

Hi Story28,
I've been wondering about that too. Being a novice, I just have no answer for it.
The more experienced members will certainly enlighten us.
I even prefer my plain smoked bacon without the skin on, easier to slice, hopefully less time to cure and if used, less Cure #1, as the latter is calculated over the total weight.
Best Regards,
Jan.
Brisbane.

porterdriver · Post by **porterdriver** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 19:51

OK, it's unanimous. Beginners from around the world are wondering the same thing.

Graybeards please enlighten us.

Darthfrog · Post by **Darthfrog** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 01:38

Leaving the skin on gives you structural integrity with which to hang the pork belly. And, after smoking bacon, the cured, smoked rind is a great ingredient for soup stock.

--
Cheers,
Rob

story28 · Post by **story28** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 02:45

Darthfrog wrote:Leaving the skin on gives you structural integrity with which to hang the pork belly. And, after smoking bacon, the cured, smoked rind is a great ingredient for soup stock.

--
Cheers,
Rob

That is very true. However, the pancetta recipes call for the skin to be removed prior to rolling and aging. It would be pretty tough to take off that skin once it was tied and hung

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 05:25

Jason, I`ve never heard of pancetta being made with the skin on. Everyone I know, unless otherwise requested, slices the skin off the bellies (right after the animal is harvested to make the job quick and easy). However, they leave as much fat in place as possible. This is usually done with large, long, slightly curved knives called "scimeters". Following curing (about 7 or 8 days) the cure, salt, and spice residue has been rinsed away, freshly ground black pepper is rubbed onto the flesh side then the fat side is rolled "outside" and tied very tightly with a series of linked half-hitches about every inch.

I just knew that many folks would be looking up your old employer Ruhlman`s recipe, so I looked it up too. On page 44 of "Charcuterie", he even specifies "skinless" bellies - but fails to identify the type of cure he uses (#1 or #2). Of course we know it is #1, but amateur readers don`t know that.

When I make "flat" bacon, I use a scimeter to remove the skin while it is still hot; when the belly comes out of the smoker - before the fat cools down - facilitating the easy removal of the skin. There are some folks who prefer it left on and indeed cook and eat it. In the "good ol` days", way-back-when Ross Hill was still in the Confederate Army, bacon was sold in the marketplace with the skin on. Hope this helps.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

story28 · Post by **story28** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 13:03

Hey there CW! You are certainly right. The Polcyn Ruhlman duo call for a skinless belly. I'm not sure if you are going to believe this, but that is not one of the books I consulted (or maybe it's not that unbelievable)

. They have a book on salumi that was slated to be released this fall but I think it was pushed back until next summer. It will be interesting to see how in depth they go with the biological process of it all.
Anyways, the books I did take a look at were Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausage and CIA's Garde Manger.... and one online source. On pg. 498 you can see Mr. Marianski's approach.
Ive been "rolling" the idea over my head for the past few days and the only thing I can even guess is that it takes you one step closer to having nicely seasoned pork rinds. But then again, who needs nitrites in pork rinds?? I guess I am still at square one

cryan1980 · Post by **cryan1980** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 00:45

Chuckwagon wrote:Jason, I`ve never heard of pancetta being made with the skin on. Everyone I know, unless otherwise requested, slices the skin off the bellies (right after the animal is harvested to make the job quick and easy). However, they leave as much fat in place as possible. This is usually done with large, long, slightly curved knives called "scimeters". Following curing (about 7 or 8 days) the cure, salt, and spice residue has been rinsed away, freshly ground black pepper is rubbed onto the flesh side then the fat side is rolled "outside" and tied very tightly with a series of linked half-hitches about every inch.

I just knew that many folks would be looking up your old employer Ruhlman`s recipe, so I looked it up too. On page 44 of "Charcuterie", he even specifies "skinless" bellies - but fails to identify the type of cure he uses (#1 or #2). Of course we know it is #1, but amateur readers don`t know that.

When I make "flat" bacon, I use a scimeter to remove the skin while it is still hot; when the belly comes out of the smoker - before the fat cools down - facilitating the easy removal of the skin. There are some folks who prefer it left on and indeed cook and eat it. In the "good ol` days", way-back-when Ross Hill was still in the Confederate Army, bacon was sold in the marketplace with the skin on. Hope this helps.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

CW, Sorry to dredge up an old post but Your comment that "Of course we know it is #"1 struck me. I am getting ready to cure my first pancetta (as soon as I finish here) and while deciding on flavor ingredients have come across quite a few recipes on the web calling for cure #2. Enough that It made me go back and run a search here!

Glad I did and reaffirmed what I was going to follow in the first place.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 03:46

CW, Sorry to dredge up an old post but Your comment that "Of course we know it is #"1 struck me. I am getting ready to cure my first pancetta (as soon as I finish here) and while deciding on flavor ingredients have come across quite a few recipes on the web calling for cure #2. Enough that It made me go back and run a search here!
Glad I did and reaffirmed what I was going to follow in the first place.

Cryan, it`s nice to hear from you. I'm going to defend my position. May I offer my 2 cents worth by saying many, many, recipes "on the web" aren`t worth the space they occupy? Many of the "experts" writing recipes on the web just don`t understand the basics of what they are writing about.

Here are the basic facts:
Because the formula for Cure #1 contains no sodium nitrate, there is no waiting for nitrate to be broken down into nitrite. Therefore, it is effective immediately in curing meat.
Cure #2 is used in dry-cured (fermented) sausages or long-term products where curing time allows the nitrate to gradually break down into nitrite. Cure #2 in the United States contains 6.25% sodium nitrite and after two weeks dry-curing, only about a quarter of the 6.25 % sodium nitrite remains in the meat. Nitrite is simply too fast.

In products requiring months to cure, sodium nitrate must be added to the recipe to break down over time. Since micrococcaceae species are inhibited at low pH, sausages relying on nitrate reduction must be fermented by a traditional process. Therefore, nitrate is still used by many dry sausage manufacturers because nitrate serves as a long time "reservoir" of nitrite.

In short, just as your Pancetta is ready to eat, the nitrates haven`t even started to break down into nitrite yet. There simply hasn`t been enough time for it to do so. This is the reason that Cure #1 is used in a Pancetta recipe finishing in just under two weeks. May I refer you to Stan Marianski`s very nice Pancetta recipe using Cure #1 on page 498 of his book, "Home Production Of Quality Meats And Sausages".
You may wish to reconsider.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Baconologist · Post by **Baconologist** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 04:53

For what it's worth, not all "cure #2" sold in the US is 6.25% nitrite.

cryan1980, what pancetta are you interested in making?
Pancetta tesa, pancetta arrotolatta or pancetta steccata?
If you'll PM me I can help you with the formula and method.

crustyo44 · Post by **crustyo44** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 09:30

Hi Bob,
What about putting the recipes and methods of all 3 Pancetta recipes on the forum.
I just collected some insulated coolroom panels for a fermenting/curing/cool room, so all recipes
are appreciated.
Regards,
Jan.

cryan1980 · Post by **cryan1980** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 01:17

Chuckwagon wrote: Cryan, it`s nice to hear from you. I'm going to defend my position.

Hi CW, Glad you posted the info but I think there was some confusion with my posting. Your reference to the cure #1 was comforting/reassuring as that is what I was ready to use before coming across websites mentioning #2

I also now realize that the Marianski book you mention is one I do not have yet,I only have the The art of Fermented Sausage and meat smoking/design.

Baconologist, I am making pancetta tesa- Honestly I had never seen steccata before. My feeling is for a first time dry cure I am less likely to have trouble if I leave it flat.

huckelberry · Post by **huckelberry** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 06:34

I just got done curing and slicing my first panchetta. The recipie I used was off the Chow web site.
http://www.chow.com/recipes/10699-chow-pancetta
It was easy and delicious. I had no problems, and as I said in the Makin Bacon post. Here is a shortcut.
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=30
The only thing I changed on the panchetta was to add the Fennel as the recipie on this site calls for. Also you can roll it no problem... Just make sure you keep the roll tight and don't allow any air gaps. The hardest part was waiting to try it. If I can do it anyone can.

If you have any extra pork you might try C.W.'s Honey Maple bacon as well, it's worth the effort.

cryan1980 · Post by **cryan1980** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:33

huckelberry wrote:I just got done curing and slicing my first panchetta. The recipie I used was off the Chow web site.
http://www.chow.com/recipes/10699-chow-pancetta
It was easy and delicious. I had no problems, and as I said in the Makin Bacon post. Here is a shortcut.
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=30
The only thing I changed on the panchetta was to add the Fennel as the recipe on this site calls for. Also you can roll it no problem... Just make sure you keep the roll tight and don't allow any air gaps. The hardest part was waiting to try it. If I can do it anyone can.

If you have any extra pork you might try C.W.'s Honey Maple bacon as well, it's worth the effort.

Thanks Huck, I'm starting to learn the "flow" of this forum I missed your pancetta post while searching earlier... Funny you mention honey bacon, The slab for pancetta is one of three curing right now, there is a honey bacon (based off Bellyachin) and a salt sugar bacon. (...and my first attempt at bresaola... a whole other level of second guessing for me! )

Marcelo · Post by **Marcelo** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 19:14

My pancetta arrotolata made without the skin is dripping something like fat, does not smell bad, but this white goo drips.
Bellies were curing two weeks in the refrigerator, sealed in plastic, then tied fine them and left to dry at room temperature + - 15C.
and now in third week, started dripping.
Anyone experienced this?
Grateful for any help!

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