Venison Salami

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kiwihunter
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Venison Salami

Post by kiwihunter » Sun Sep 29, 2013 07:40

Have had some venison salami in the incubator now for about 3months they still smell cheesy and are stil tacky to the touch they have lost just under 30% is it time to throw them and start a new batch ?
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Post by Chuckwagon » Sun Sep 29, 2013 08:03

Hi Kiwihunter,
We need more info. Can you tell us about the recipe? How about some details of the fermentation plan. How about a photo?

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
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Post by kiwihunter » Sun Sep 29, 2013 09:12

heres the recipe venison 1360g 920gr pork trim 48grm salt 35 gram skim milk 9 grams dextrose 7 grams red pepper flakes 6 grams cure #2 6 grams garlic powder 14 grams starter culture BIOBAK Ultra Plus 72 hr ferment at 90% humidity at 19 degrees celsius fouldnt hold the temp any higher but it maintained 19 well ill see if i can get a photo up tommorow cheers
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Sun Sep 29, 2013 21:16

Looking forward to your photos Kiwi!

Recipe looks very allright to me - especially the fact that you´we used plenty of starter culture which should secure domination of the good fella´s right from the start.
And not too much dextrose, which ought to give you a a tasty result without too much acidity or tangyness :grin: I´m in!

What annoys me a bit is that you couldn´t maintain a temperature above 19 degrees. Usually the pro´s in the starter culture business will raise an eyebrow at such a temperature and claim that once you get below 20 degrees certain evildoing ingenious bacteria may overtake because the temperature is not high enough to make our good fella´s multiply rapidly enough.

Generally the optimal temperature for a starter culture is 24 celcius. Of course depending on the performance profile of the individual culture. With so called "fast" cultures fermentation can take place at 30 or even 40 degrees - but why spoil good taste because of speed-crazyness??
Personally I would not go below 20 degrees with the Biobak Ultra Plus but stay at the safe side of 24 degrees.

In contrast to this you often encounter "low" fermantation temperatures between 15 and 20 degrees in countries like Italy, but usually also helped by their advantageous microclimate which you shouldn´t count on replicating at home (...unless you live in very italianate surroundings :wink: )
Wishing you a Good Day!
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Post by redzed » Mon Sep 30, 2013 06:33

I also thought that the fermentation temp was a bit low and cannot understand why you could not bring the temp up a bit. Last week I fermented some salami in a large cooler, (I think you guys call it a chiily bin :roll: )in a room where the temp was 16°. I used a 15w light bulb controlled by a dimmer switch to heat this makeshift chamber. After adjusting it during the first couple of hours, it perfectly held a temp of 25° for 45 hours.

And can you tell us what the temp and humidity was in your "incubator"?
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Post by kiwihunter » Mon Sep 30, 2013 06:54

Heres a link couldnt work out how to post via imageshack thanks for the replies http://s579.photobucket.com/user/kiwisi ... r/library/
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Post by kiwihunter » Mon Sep 30, 2013 06:59

The temp was 19 degrees celsius the humidity was 90% im only running a small heat pad rated at 20watts couldnt get the temp any higher redzed i had no trouble man\intaining the humidity cheers jeffrey
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Post by redzed » Mon Sep 30, 2013 07:10

Kiwi, so what you are saying is that you kept the salami at 19° and 90RH for three months?
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Post by kiwihunter » Mon Sep 30, 2013 07:29

No sorry 72 hr incubation followed by drop to 13 degrees and 75 to 80 RH
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Mon Sep 30, 2013 08:42

Thanks for the shots Kiwi,
It seems that there are some wholes inside, and because of the overtly red colour I can´t really see if there´s a dry rim build up under the surface, though it seems like it...(?)
If that´s the case it may well be that the surface dry out has prevented the moisture inside in escaping, causing an ongoing fermentation inside of the sausage.
Does the inside taste overtly sour or "strange"? (Just chew and spit out - don´t swollow :wink: )
Wishing you a Good Day!
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Post by kiwihunter » Mon Sep 30, 2013 09:28

Theres no hole just used a bread knife which dislodged abit of meat it dosnt have a noticibly sour note definatley taste the pepper but there does appear a rim a darkening towards the outside I have some Sacco Lyocarni VMB-02 culture ago and start a new batch should be able to get a higher temp in incubator now the weather is warmer thanks for your help lucky i still have about 15 kilos of venison left in the freezer :grin: and theres always a deer or two lurking not far away cheers jeffrey
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:59

kiwihunter wrote: ...there does appear a rim a darkening towards the outside
So it seems that there could be a problem with moisture being trapped inside if you register the inside as being markedly softer than the rim near the surface.
You could have avoided it by prolonging the time of fermenting at high humidity (90 -95%)
(It´s always tempting to be smart in retrospective :???: but as long as we learn from our mishaps...).

Another factor: do you knead or blend the ingredients for a longer time?
One reason why dry rim can develop is because of smearage that takes place in the tube while the sausage is filled into the casing. I don´t know about your processing temperature but it doesn´t take many degrees above plus before you risk that the thawn up meat and fat blend forms a "lubricate" that seals off the surface inside the casing.

A way to prevent this is to use a short tube on your sausage filler and always use a tube of a calibre that matches the calibre of the casing as closely as possible. By using a too thin tube when filling a large calibre casing you just mess the meat blend around inside the casing resulting in even more smearing.

Because of the situation you describe I presume the Sacco Lyocarni VMB-02 will do a safer job than the Biobak because it´s faster and you will get an even pH drop all throug the meat mass fairly quickly, thus reducing the probability of dry rim and trapped moisture.

But do try to keep up a temperature at at least 20 degrees :cool:
Wishing you a Good Day!
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Post by kiwihunter » Tue Oct 01, 2013 08:27

Thanks for the useful feedback Igor, In hindsight i think i should have gone with pure fatback as opposed to pork trim would have given a better definition as well as not having a tendancy to smear i dont think it was in the mixing that the smearing was acheived but in the stuffing i didnt think of that being a factor especially as i was in a commercial kitchen with hot ovens going ill do it earlier in the morning next time before the ovens are heated up. Question 1 i have a PH meter but it only has a normal probe can i accurately measure PH drop with this meter and what is the process for doing this Question 2 does the size of the meat particles affect frementaion process Ive just set up the incubator for 23 degrees celsius so hoping in the morning to see it hovering somewhere near there id not ill have to get some more heat in there somehow . Loooking forward to having another go at making salami this time with a bit more success the goodnews is i dont pay for my venison so its not all that bad thanks once again for your help cheers jeffrey
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Post by Chuckwagon » Tue Oct 01, 2013 09:14

Well it looks fine to me. That's a heck of a nice project. Great photos too. Hey Kiwi, where are the bottoms to yer' britches? My goodness, you've got quite a sunburn on your arms too! :shock: Keep up the great work.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by kiwihunter » Sun Oct 20, 2013 06:57

Well project number two under way this time a venison cacciatore 32mm casing, ferment 72hrs at 90+ humidity got the ph down to 5 now at 13 dgrees C 75 to 80% H , only problem so far was mold growth wiped with vinegar solution, must be some fermentaion going on because the fruit flies are buzzing around everywhere. Also went and brought a mixer should be able to do about 15 kilos in this at a time hoping this will be better then the planetary mixer i have been using. It works on the same principal as ive seen advertised in the States the only difference is this has a motor not turned by hand i thought it was a steal at 200 dollars, i also found a nz site which offers CHR cultures so that was a good find i beleive they have mold cultures as well cheeers
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