UMAI bags in curing chamber: higher temp & humidity?
UMAI bags in curing chamber: higher temp & humidity?
OK , Have humidity / temp chamber already running , can I cure my sausage, whole muscle meats in bags in chamber not fridge , Contacted bag co. And they didn't see why not , your thoughts would be appreciated. I am even testing a farmers sausage in muslin inside a bag at the same time as others are drying without the bag to do a side by side sampling , dry time , taste..
Last edited by toolhawk1 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 07:19, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by toolhawk1 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 01:06, edited 1 time in total.
Hey toolhawk1. it's been a while! Welcome back!
How will meat enclosed in an Umai bag dry in a curing chamber? Well that is a very good question, and one that some of us have been wondering about as well. In fact, I also began an experiment a little over a week ago where I made a Spanish chorizo and am drying it three different ways: 1. Cased in a protein lined collagen casing and hung in my curing chamber, 12C (54F) and RH 80%; 2. Cased in the 50mm Umai salami tube, and also hung in the curing chamber, and 3. Cased in the 50mm Umai salami tube and hung in a refrigerator, 4C (39F) and RH of 46% So far I have not weighed any of the sausages, but will do so after 14 days and report in this thread. So far the Umai chorizo in the curing chamber seems to be drying but maybe not quite as much as the one in the fridge. And that may not be a bad thing. I expect that since there is a considerable difference in the relative humidity between the fridge and curing chamber, the drying will be much slower in the curing chamber. In the end its probably no different than if you hang a shirt out to drying when its humid and if you hang it out when the air is drier.
One thing that I noticed about your curing chamber toolhawk, is that the RH is only 61%. Is it always that low? I suspect you don't have a humidifier in there? If so, do you not find that you get case hardening (dry rim) on the outside of your meats and sausages? Following fermentation I try to keep the RH at 85% and gradually lower it to the high 70s. I would not recommend going below 75% even at the late stages of the ripening process.
I certainly am interested in your results, so please keep good records and report here.
redzed
How will meat enclosed in an Umai bag dry in a curing chamber? Well that is a very good question, and one that some of us have been wondering about as well. In fact, I also began an experiment a little over a week ago where I made a Spanish chorizo and am drying it three different ways: 1. Cased in a protein lined collagen casing and hung in my curing chamber, 12C (54F) and RH 80%; 2. Cased in the 50mm Umai salami tube, and also hung in the curing chamber, and 3. Cased in the 50mm Umai salami tube and hung in a refrigerator, 4C (39F) and RH of 46% So far I have not weighed any of the sausages, but will do so after 14 days and report in this thread. So far the Umai chorizo in the curing chamber seems to be drying but maybe not quite as much as the one in the fridge. And that may not be a bad thing. I expect that since there is a considerable difference in the relative humidity between the fridge and curing chamber, the drying will be much slower in the curing chamber. In the end its probably no different than if you hang a shirt out to drying when its humid and if you hang it out when the air is drier.
One thing that I noticed about your curing chamber toolhawk, is that the RH is only 61%. Is it always that low? I suspect you don't have a humidifier in there? If so, do you not find that you get case hardening (dry rim) on the outside of your meats and sausages? Following fermentation I try to keep the RH at 85% and gradually lower it to the high 70s. I would not recommend going below 75% even at the late stages of the ripening process.
I certainly am interested in your results, so please keep good records and report here.
redzed
Last edited by redzed on Sun Mar 08, 2015 18:17, edited 1 time in total.
My experiment where I set out to compare how a sausage dried/aged/matured (or however you want to word it) in a 50mm umai salumi tube and placed in a curing chamber, temp 12C and humidity 75-85%, would compare with cased the same way and hung in a refrigerator, 4-6C and 45-50% RH, has been aborted after 25 days.
The reason that it was stopped was that the Umai cased sausage (a Spanish chorizo) that was hanging in the curing chamber, developed mould under the casing! So much for the claims that it is permeable only from the inside, and that no bacteria can enter! Throughout the three and a half week period that the Umai chorizo hung in the curing chamber it never did feel firm to the touch and the material did not dry, shrink and adhere to the meat like it did in the fridge hung chorizo. The chamber chorizo, which felt soft and spongy, actually lost more weight than the fridge cousin that was very firm and dry. The one in the chamber lost 31% and the one in the fridge 24%. (Both of these, in my opinion lost too much weight in that short period of time) After I removed the Umai tubing, there was a strong sour/spoiled meat smell to it. It will go into the recycling bin.
The chorizo that dried in the fridge is OK. Almost finished on the outside and still a little soft on the inside. But the flavour and texture is not bad. If hung in the fridge for another 10 days or so, then vac packed and rested for a couple of weeks longer it might be even pretty good.
Conclusion: No, Umai bags will not perform well in a conventional dry cure environment. If you do Umai, dry whatever you are making in your fridge.
Umai cased chorizo after 25 days hanging in a curing chamber, 12°C and 75-85 RH. Note the mould on the outside and inside.
White and grey mould.
Same as the above but with Umai plastic removed.
Umai cased chorizo hung in the fridge for 25 days, 4-6°C, 45-50% RH.
The fridge dries version was edidle, the chamber version was not.
The reason that it was stopped was that the Umai cased sausage (a Spanish chorizo) that was hanging in the curing chamber, developed mould under the casing! So much for the claims that it is permeable only from the inside, and that no bacteria can enter! Throughout the three and a half week period that the Umai chorizo hung in the curing chamber it never did feel firm to the touch and the material did not dry, shrink and adhere to the meat like it did in the fridge hung chorizo. The chamber chorizo, which felt soft and spongy, actually lost more weight than the fridge cousin that was very firm and dry. The one in the chamber lost 31% and the one in the fridge 24%. (Both of these, in my opinion lost too much weight in that short period of time) After I removed the Umai tubing, there was a strong sour/spoiled meat smell to it. It will go into the recycling bin.
The chorizo that dried in the fridge is OK. Almost finished on the outside and still a little soft on the inside. But the flavour and texture is not bad. If hung in the fridge for another 10 days or so, then vac packed and rested for a couple of weeks longer it might be even pretty good.
Conclusion: No, Umai bags will not perform well in a conventional dry cure environment. If you do Umai, dry whatever you are making in your fridge.
Umai cased chorizo after 25 days hanging in a curing chamber, 12°C and 75-85 RH. Note the mould on the outside and inside.
White and grey mould.
Same as the above but with Umai plastic removed.
Umai cased chorizo hung in the fridge for 25 days, 4-6°C, 45-50% RH.
The fridge dries version was edidle, the chamber version was not.
Thats too bad about the bags in the chamber, at least the refrigerator version was a success!
There is more info here on the thinner/smokeable Charcuterie bags that they say can be used as a substitute for regular casings, Umai USA does not carry them.
http://www.smokedandcured.com.au/
Download PDF file:
https://www.smokedandcured.com.au/accou ... Q3NTI3Mg==
I would imagine that that would apply if the ends were sealed but not if air can enter through the twist tied ends.redzed wrote: So much for the claims that it is permeable only from the inside, and that no bacteria can enter!
There is more info here on the thinner/smokeable Charcuterie bags that they say can be used as a substitute for regular casings, Umai USA does not carry them.
http://www.smokedandcured.com.au/
Download PDF file:
https://www.smokedandcured.com.au/accou ... Q3NTI3Mg==
I don't think the air was able to enter through the twisted ends. I think that the air that was in the sausage simply was not forced out by the umai plastic because it did not shrink and stick to the meat like it is supposed to. They do stress that it needs to be in contact with the meat. Obviously the umai product was designed to be used in a lower RH environment.
Yes I noticed that the smokeable Tublin 5 product is available in Australia, while the umai distributor still sells only Tublin 10.
Yes I noticed that the smokeable Tublin 5 product is available in Australia, while the umai distributor still sells only Tublin 10.
Red, the Genoa that I did 7 in all 3 of them the casings did not shrink with the meat. The other 4 look wonderful. Yesterday I undid the strings and wrapped them back up as tight as possible. Even doing this there seems to be air in there that I can't get rid of. Going to play it out and see just how each one turns out but I think I am just about done with these UMAi bags. Maybe the dog will be happy if it don't turn out good
Devo, was your Genoa in the fridge or curing chamber? All my 5 varieties of the test salami that are in the fridge are drying well, a bit too fast, but taste fine. Today I took out three more of them from a batch of chorizo Pamploma I made four weeks ago, and vac packed them. I can't do a taste comparison with the ones drying in the chamber because they are way too soft and probably need another month. The pic below is of the Pamploma in the umai coats.
progress I hope ?
1st, dry bags started 3/1/15 all at 17%-22% , look the same , wouldn't call them firm. 2nd , 1 mennonite sausage in cloth and dry bag at 22% , Mennonite sausage in just cloth at 24%-26% all started 2/17/15, chamber sitting at 78%- 80% , 50 degrees . Everything seems ok , smells good , looks good , but we will wait and see , thanks for your input and advice !!
Last edited by toolhawk1 on Fri Mar 27, 2015 03:23, edited 2 times in total.