Keeping Sausage-Making Simple
Many folks, who look at our site, have said it becomes too technical too quickly. Many are disappointed and even quite astonished to learn how quickly a certain topic may turn into some sort of controversial science. Learning this, many people decide not to become involved in what they perceive as quite technical information on the "upper end of fermented sausage technology".
Beginners, let me reassure you that there are folks on Wedliny Domowe who are here to help you with even the most basic and simple topics, methods, and recipes.
Beginners, please do not feel intimidated or overwhelmed by technical information offered by experienced sausage makers and even professionals who have studied various aspects of the craft.
Beginners, please don`t be afraid to post; either your questions or your information. If you have a question, remember that others cannot see your project and must be "filled in" or "brought up to speed" regarding your specific and individual circumstances before answering.
Beginners, please don`t be shy or reticent. We ALL began at the same point. Some have had advantages. Some people have preferred to keep information secret and to themselves. However, others have decided to help others learn and share their resources and offer assistance to anyone who will but ask.
Beginners, there is no such thing at Wedliny Domowe as a "stupid question"... although sometimes you may see a rather stupid answer. Please don`t hesitate to ask your individual, particular, or peculiar questions, no matter how simple, repetitive, or even redundant.
This is the section for the questions of inexperienced beginners. We also would like to hear about your particular experiences, along with photos. Many times, a photo of a bad sausage will enable us to identify a problem. So, fire away, beginners! We wish to hear from you.
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Keeping Sausage-Making Simple
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Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Keeping Sausage-Making Simple
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! 
...and especially, don't be intimidated by the spreadsheets that dummies like me occasionally post. YOU DON'T NEED THEM! They're just for my own (and a few of my friends) enjoyment. If you can read a recipe, and can keep in mind a few key things like cleanliness and keeping things cold, you can do great in this tasty hobby.
...and be sure to share your efforts and questions and, yes, your answers. Like ol' Chuckwagon says (and he oughta know!), there are no stupid questions.
Duk
...and be sure to share your efforts and questions and, yes, your answers. Like ol' Chuckwagon says (and he oughta know!), there are no stupid questions.
Duk
Experience - the ability to instantly recognize a mistake when you make it again.
Another thing worth understanding is that sausage making was in full swing before the industrial revolution. You absolutely don't NEED all of the equipment that is going to be discussed. Meat can be minced with knives or hatchets or cleavers, just not as quickly or as easily as with a grinder.
Ross- tightwad home cook
Stupid Questions
Stupid QuestionsThat became the most popular place to post questions on in a forum similar to this one I had been involved in some years back.
They would then be directed to the appropriate string if the question was a common one.
Just remember:
If someone laughs at you, you know that they are your friend.....If they laugh with you...you never know.
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sambal badjak
- Frequent User
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 15:41
- Location: In the hot Zambezi Valley
- Contact:
Just a little bit of input from a newbie:
I actually enjoy the more thorough discussions. this is one of the few fora that I can actually find them.
Got to be something in my genes: I always want to know the background of things.
But I can see it getting intimidating
All I can say: please don't back away from technical discussions just to make it "easy" for us newbies, but maybe give easy alternatives or something like that.
I must say I have had some tremendous help sofar
I actually enjoy the more thorough discussions. this is one of the few fora that I can actually find them.
Got to be something in my genes: I always want to know the background of things.
But I can see it getting intimidating
All I can say: please don't back away from technical discussions just to make it "easy" for us newbies, but maybe give easy alternatives or something like that.
I must say I have had some tremendous help sofar
life is too short to drink bad wine (anonymus)
******************** Beginners Needed! ??????? ****************
Looks like this is the place for me . I used to make some Italian with my neighbor from the old country 30 yrs. ago .... good stuff ! .... I love good sausage (all kinds) and its darn hard to find any .. Around my neck of the woods the old mom & dad stores are a memory of the past, along with the sausage they made . So only one thing to do , get started on my own . The wife found some summer sausage kit that has been laying around for the last twenty years along with a sausage attachment for her KitchenAid ... the spices in it were well 20+ years old so I tossed them .. I found the local supplier and bought some of his mix ( going to operate on the KISS principle to start with ) .. I did the 7% hambuger and 50% ground pork @ 7 to 3 .... dumped the mix in and when to work .... fried some up and looked at the mix packet ... It said Zesty ( could have fooled me ) , out with the garlic , peppers , chipoltae , and L smoke got it where i wanted it .... cooked it in the oven .... 10# of good stuff .... It lasted almost a week between friends and family ... on the next batchs I drug out my old smoker (runs to hot), finished in the oven , got some real smoke on it . excellent stuff ! Pork shoulders on sale .....25# followed me home , got some casing, mix and did 15# of Italian , good ,but not as good as my old buddies ..... Having been sucessful so far , I felt I was ready to do some smoked German . 25# of kneading is a little hard on me these days , 25# of stuffing thru a KitchenAid is pretty darn time consuming even with help .... my buddy took some home to smoke on his Trager , it ran too hot also ..... I got some smoke on the rest with my rig , but didn't get fully cooked ( not even close ) .... bagged them and froze them. the casings are pretty dang tuff ... too much heat I'm guessing .... but a good tasting product none the less .... My bride of 37 years informed me that : you are to ruff on my mixer , buy your own stuff . That was like throwing everclear on a fire.
I picked up a hand crank meat mixer and electric grinder on FleaBay and ordered a 7# Weston stuffer online after getting to do some welding and machining on the brand new china made mixer after using it for 7# of meatballs .... ya get almost what you pay for . one can get parts for a Weston. Been busy getting a smoke generator going for a smoker . Reading reviews on smokers , to get a good one that lasts and you can buy parts for the size I want just isn't in the budget. So I'll build one . a cold smoker for now. and figure out the controls this winter. I plan on poaching to get my temp.
Here's the Question already: should I cold smoke first then poach-quench or the other way around ?
I plan on getting into fermented sausage down the road , but I can see a steep learning curve ahead .
Thanks
Looks like this is the place for me . I used to make some Italian with my neighbor from the old country 30 yrs. ago .... good stuff ! .... I love good sausage (all kinds) and its darn hard to find any .. Around my neck of the woods the old mom & dad stores are a memory of the past, along with the sausage they made . So only one thing to do , get started on my own . The wife found some summer sausage kit that has been laying around for the last twenty years along with a sausage attachment for her KitchenAid ... the spices in it were well 20+ years old so I tossed them .. I found the local supplier and bought some of his mix ( going to operate on the KISS principle to start with ) .. I did the 7% hambuger and 50% ground pork @ 7 to 3 .... dumped the mix in and when to work .... fried some up and looked at the mix packet ... It said Zesty ( could have fooled me ) , out with the garlic , peppers , chipoltae , and L smoke got it where i wanted it .... cooked it in the oven .... 10# of good stuff .... It lasted almost a week between friends and family ... on the next batchs I drug out my old smoker (runs to hot), finished in the oven , got some real smoke on it . excellent stuff ! Pork shoulders on sale .....25# followed me home , got some casing, mix and did 15# of Italian , good ,but not as good as my old buddies ..... Having been sucessful so far , I felt I was ready to do some smoked German . 25# of kneading is a little hard on me these days , 25# of stuffing thru a KitchenAid is pretty darn time consuming even with help .... my buddy took some home to smoke on his Trager , it ran too hot also ..... I got some smoke on the rest with my rig , but didn't get fully cooked ( not even close ) .... bagged them and froze them. the casings are pretty dang tuff ... too much heat I'm guessing .... but a good tasting product none the less .... My bride of 37 years informed me that : you are to ruff on my mixer , buy your own stuff . That was like throwing everclear on a fire.
I picked up a hand crank meat mixer and electric grinder on FleaBay and ordered a 7# Weston stuffer online after getting to do some welding and machining on the brand new china made mixer after using it for 7# of meatballs .... ya get almost what you pay for . one can get parts for a Weston. Been busy getting a smoke generator going for a smoker . Reading reviews on smokers , to get a good one that lasts and you can buy parts for the size I want just isn't in the budget. So I'll build one . a cold smoker for now. and figure out the controls this winter. I plan on poaching to get my temp.
Here's the Question already: should I cold smoke first then poach-quench or the other way around ?
I plan on getting into fermented sausage down the road , but I can see a steep learning curve ahead .
Thanks
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Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
DYI Steve, you wrote:
Cold smoking is a more refined procedure and has some rules with it. Please study it a little before you use it on a project. Read and ask questions. Here is a little information to start your reading:
Cold smoking meats prevent or slow down the spoilage of fats, increasing shelf life. The product will be drier and saltier, having a more pronounced smoky flavor and long shelf life. The color varies from yellow to dark brown on the surface and dark red inside. Cold smoked products are not submitted to the cooking process. Stan Marianski said, "If you want to cold smoke your meats, bear in mind that with the exception of people living in areas with a cold climate like Alaska, it will have to be done in the winter months just as it was done 500 years ago."
Steve, cold smoking is a drying process usually involving many hours for several days or even weeks. Through the process of dehydration, pathogenic bacteria are destroyed. To consume a sausage of this type, it must be dried to a specific point On the other hand, hot-smoking is a smoking-prep cooking process usually finished relatively shortly (within hours) and becomes safe when "prep" cooked at about 148° F.
To ensure a constant breakdown of nitrate into nitrite in cold-smoking sausages, Cure #2 is most often used. However, occasionally in some comminuted sausage, the use of Cure #1 may be specified. Cold-smoked products are not usually smoked continuously as fresh air is usually allowed into the smoker at regular intervals to allow time for complete penetration of smoke deep into muscle tissues. As moisture leaves the meat, the product will become naturally rigid.
Because cold-smoked meat and fish products are not cooked, cold smoking is an entirely contrasting process from hot-smoking as the heat source is remote and the smoke is "piped" into the smokehouse from several feet away, giving the smoke time to cool down. Most often, the cold-smokehouse is elevated higher than the heat source, or the smoke is forced inside by a fan.
When hot-smoking fish, the flesh gradually becomes cooked. Because fish begins to cook at 85°F. (30°C.), the temperature in most American "cold-smoke houses" is less than 85° F. (29°C.) and often much lower in order to prevent spoilage. In Russia and many parts of Europe, the upper limit has been 71°F. (22°C.).
Cold-smoked products must contain nitrite or nitrate/nitrite cures to be safe because even using thin smoke, oxygen is cut off and most obligate anaerobic bacteria, some facultative anaerobic bacteria, and even some microaerophile bacteria may thrive. Never cold-smoke fresh sausage or any meat product without using a curing agent.
Some dry-cured (raw) sausages are held for weeks in cold-smoke while they continue to dehydrate safely below .85 Aw. Initially they are protected from pathogenic bacteria by the sausage`s salt content. This affords their only protection while the lactic acid is being produced by lactobacilli and pediococci bacteria. Additionally, some semi-dry cured sausages may be cold-smoked after they have been prep-cooked. Again, although cold smoking is not a continuous process, it usually assures deep smoke penetration. It is usually discontinued overnight, allowing fresh air to assist with the uniform loss of moisture.
Raw meat is not quickly hot-smoked because, although it may have been cured by sodium nitrite to destroy clostridium botulinum, the cooking process eliminates other microorganisms such as Staphylococcus aureus, Listeria monocytogenes, Clostridium perfringens, and Escherichia coli O157:H7.
Real cold smoking is an elongated process involving several weeks or even months. It is shut down for 8 or 10 hours each day so the meat can have time to absorb the smoke. When raw meat (dry cured) sausages are put in cold smoke (while curing with nitrate) the only protection it has against bacteria (until the lactic acid develops) is an exceptionally high volume of salt. The lactic acid also gives the sausage a sour or "tangy" flavor.
So, technically, if pork butt has picked up an adequate percentage of salt, only then is it safe to smoke. However, "ham" would be almost unpalatably salty. A much better solution for this type product is hot smoking where cured meat is simultaneously cooked. This is often accomplished by "prep cooking" the meat while reaching only about 148 degrees Fahrenheit, then refrigerating it until it can be warmed and "finished" at a temperature anywhere over 155 degrees.
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Steve, I would really recommend using a hot-smoker for now. You can always use a little portable hot-plate to burn the sawdust in a stainless steel bowl. If you make sausage that you poach, be sure to use sodium nitrite Cure #1 and only a level teaspoon per five pounds of meat. Smoke the sausages slowly... raising the hot plate (smokehouse temperature) by only 2 degrees each 20-30 minutes or so, until the sausage (internal meat temp) reaches 155° F.So I'll build one . a cold smoker for now. and figure out the controls this winter. I plan on poaching to get my temp. Here's the Question already: should I cold smoke first then poach-quench or the other way around ?
Cold smoking is a more refined procedure and has some rules with it. Please study it a little before you use it on a project. Read and ask questions. Here is a little information to start your reading:
Cold smoking meats prevent or slow down the spoilage of fats, increasing shelf life. The product will be drier and saltier, having a more pronounced smoky flavor and long shelf life. The color varies from yellow to dark brown on the surface and dark red inside. Cold smoked products are not submitted to the cooking process. Stan Marianski said, "If you want to cold smoke your meats, bear in mind that with the exception of people living in areas with a cold climate like Alaska, it will have to be done in the winter months just as it was done 500 years ago."
Steve, cold smoking is a drying process usually involving many hours for several days or even weeks. Through the process of dehydration, pathogenic bacteria are destroyed. To consume a sausage of this type, it must be dried to a specific point On the other hand, hot-smoking is a smoking-prep cooking process usually finished relatively shortly (within hours) and becomes safe when "prep" cooked at about 148° F.
To ensure a constant breakdown of nitrate into nitrite in cold-smoking sausages, Cure #2 is most often used. However, occasionally in some comminuted sausage, the use of Cure #1 may be specified. Cold-smoked products are not usually smoked continuously as fresh air is usually allowed into the smoker at regular intervals to allow time for complete penetration of smoke deep into muscle tissues. As moisture leaves the meat, the product will become naturally rigid.
Because cold-smoked meat and fish products are not cooked, cold smoking is an entirely contrasting process from hot-smoking as the heat source is remote and the smoke is "piped" into the smokehouse from several feet away, giving the smoke time to cool down. Most often, the cold-smokehouse is elevated higher than the heat source, or the smoke is forced inside by a fan.
When hot-smoking fish, the flesh gradually becomes cooked. Because fish begins to cook at 85°F. (30°C.), the temperature in most American "cold-smoke houses" is less than 85° F. (29°C.) and often much lower in order to prevent spoilage. In Russia and many parts of Europe, the upper limit has been 71°F. (22°C.).
Cold-smoked products must contain nitrite or nitrate/nitrite cures to be safe because even using thin smoke, oxygen is cut off and most obligate anaerobic bacteria, some facultative anaerobic bacteria, and even some microaerophile bacteria may thrive. Never cold-smoke fresh sausage or any meat product without using a curing agent.
Some dry-cured (raw) sausages are held for weeks in cold-smoke while they continue to dehydrate safely below .85 Aw. Initially they are protected from pathogenic bacteria by the sausage`s salt content. This affords their only protection while the lactic acid is being produced by lactobacilli and pediococci bacteria. Additionally, some semi-dry cured sausages may be cold-smoked after they have been prep-cooked. Again, although cold smoking is not a continuous process, it usually assures deep smoke penetration. It is usually discontinued overnight, allowing fresh air to assist with the uniform loss of moisture.
Raw meat is not quickly hot-smoked because, although it may have been cured by sodium nitrite to destroy clostridium botulinum, the cooking process eliminates other microorganisms such as Staphylococcus aureus, Listeria monocytogenes, Clostridium perfringens, and Escherichia coli O157:H7.
Real cold smoking is an elongated process involving several weeks or even months. It is shut down for 8 or 10 hours each day so the meat can have time to absorb the smoke. When raw meat (dry cured) sausages are put in cold smoke (while curing with nitrate) the only protection it has against bacteria (until the lactic acid develops) is an exceptionally high volume of salt. The lactic acid also gives the sausage a sour or "tangy" flavor.
So, technically, if pork butt has picked up an adequate percentage of salt, only then is it safe to smoke. However, "ham" would be almost unpalatably salty. A much better solution for this type product is hot smoking where cured meat is simultaneously cooked. This is often accomplished by "prep cooking" the meat while reaching only about 148 degrees Fahrenheit, then refrigerating it until it can be warmed and "finished" at a temperature anywhere over 155 degrees.
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill!
Damn , ask a simple question get a set of Britanica ..... LOL .. or perhaps I should explain myself better .... imagin that?
I'm using Cure#1 at this time for anything that goes in the smoker sausage making. Thank you tons el Ducko for keeping an eye on us newbies .
Chuckwagon ... as far as the cold smoke I was thinking an hour or so then poaching to bring the internal up to 160 ... then quenching cold water ...
" Here's the Question already: should I cold smoke first then poach-quench or the other way around ?"
my def of poaching is to bring the sausage up to temp in a water bath . read about 30 min does the trick. I'll use a meat probe to check the temp.
what I had in mind isn't prolly true cold smoking.
out of my reading cold smoke goes all the way thru more on uncooked meat ?
Then again I read about reload data for my 45-70 , that I think was left by the Unibomber ... the internet can be wonderful !
I've done a ton of meats on my smokers , more of a cooking, bbq thing... definate smoke ring in the meat ... something that I slow cook for 8-16 hour has a vinger - salt base marinate .... but my cooking temps are 225 + .... to try and get a 165 temp to cook with this time of year , isn't going to happen on my present smokers ... could wait till winter .... that's months away
thanks for the help guys , this is a great site for a guy starting out
I'm using Cure#1 at this time for anything that goes in the smoker sausage making. Thank you tons el Ducko for keeping an eye on us newbies .
Chuckwagon ... as far as the cold smoke I was thinking an hour or so then poaching to bring the internal up to 160 ... then quenching cold water ...
" Here's the Question already: should I cold smoke first then poach-quench or the other way around ?"
my def of poaching is to bring the sausage up to temp in a water bath . read about 30 min does the trick. I'll use a meat probe to check the temp.
what I had in mind isn't prolly true cold smoking.
out of my reading cold smoke goes all the way thru more on uncooked meat ?
Then again I read about reload data for my 45-70 , that I think was left by the Unibomber ... the internet can be wonderful !
I've done a ton of meats on my smokers , more of a cooking, bbq thing... definate smoke ring in the meat ... something that I slow cook for 8-16 hour has a vinger - salt base marinate .... but my cooking temps are 225 + .... to try and get a 165 temp to cook with this time of year , isn't going to happen on my present smokers ... could wait till winter .... that's months away
thanks for the help guys , this is a great site for a guy starting out
Last edited by DYI Steve on Fri Sep 13, 2013 19:04, edited 1 time in total.
speaking of cleanliness
Speaking of cleanliness and bacteria and such, I have finally tracked down a faint, stinky odor, the source of which has eluded me for about a week. I thought it might have been due to Chuckwagon's bathing habits (after all, we ARE downwind of Utah), but it turned out to be even more elusive than il maestro his-seff. (...and I DO mean ill. ...uh, il.)
Those nooks and crannies in your grinding and stuffing equipment can build up some real nasty stuff. My problem turned out to be some pork mince residue which had become lodged down in the threads in the stuffer's moveable plate, where it screws onto the threaded plunger. It's a small space, and awkward to clean. Armed with plenty of hot water and soap, the proper set of small brushes, and finally, a toothbrush, I was able to dislodge the pesky material. Now, I pay special attention to threaded hardware, the grinder plate retaining ring for example, and those plates with the itty bitty fine holes.
Yes, don't wait for a visit from the EMT squad. (...or Chuckwagon and his pet bacteria, for that matter.) Go for the details when cleaning your equipment. Wash it before use, just before chilling it, and wash it after use too.
...and be sure to replace your wife's toothbrush with a new one before she figures out why it tastes soapy.
Those nooks and crannies in your grinding and stuffing equipment can build up some real nasty stuff. My problem turned out to be some pork mince residue which had become lodged down in the threads in the stuffer's moveable plate, where it screws onto the threaded plunger. It's a small space, and awkward to clean. Armed with plenty of hot water and soap, the proper set of small brushes, and finally, a toothbrush, I was able to dislodge the pesky material. Now, I pay special attention to threaded hardware, the grinder plate retaining ring for example, and those plates with the itty bitty fine holes.
Yes, don't wait for a visit from the EMT squad. (...or Chuckwagon and his pet bacteria, for that matter.) Go for the details when cleaning your equipment. Wash it before use, just before chilling it, and wash it after use too.
...and be sure to replace your wife's toothbrush with a new one before she figures out why it tastes soapy.
Experience - the ability to instantly recognize a mistake when you make it again.
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Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
What? Where? Who? Why you uppity Duck! I`ll have you know I bathe every Saturday night whether I need it or not! Now, listen here Duck! ... The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list. And don`t make me use UPPERCASE!
Geeeeze! Some people are like "Slinkies" - you know... the coiled wire play toy. They sure bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs! Now straighten up, Duck. And don't make me come down there!
Geeeeze! Some people are like "Slinkies" - you know... the coiled wire play toy. They sure bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs! Now straighten up, Duck. And don't make me come down there!
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill!
Sausage making can be as simple as you like or as complex as you want to make it. I have been making a lot of cured cooked and smoked sausages. This sounds complex, but if you break it down it is a series of simple steps. I am also making my first batch of fermentated (cured and air dried) sausages. Yes this is complex and a bit time consuming, but once again once you have sorted out the equipment it becomes a series of simple steps. In terms of the most difficult step I have found so far has been making the sausage with gloves on!
It has been a while since I have made some fresh sausages. Today I made some. The pork sausages were flavoured with salt, pepper, sage, garlic powder and chilli flakes. See not many ingredients. They would have been perfectly good without the garlic and chilli flakes. So with ground pork, sage, salt and pepper you have sausages. I made them before breakfast and decided that I was too hungry to wait. I made a couple of patties with the meat and cooked them up. I had placed the sausage meat in the freezer so that it would keep cold. So if you do not have skins or cannot be bothered make patties instead of stuffed sausages. Another option is making them sausage shaped and dipping them in flour, egg and breadcrumbs. See sausage making can be simple.
AS CW. mentions there are many people on this site who will offer you help and advice
Markjass
It has been a while since I have made some fresh sausages. Today I made some. The pork sausages were flavoured with salt, pepper, sage, garlic powder and chilli flakes. See not many ingredients. They would have been perfectly good without the garlic and chilli flakes. So with ground pork, sage, salt and pepper you have sausages. I made them before breakfast and decided that I was too hungry to wait. I made a couple of patties with the meat and cooked them up. I had placed the sausage meat in the freezer so that it would keep cold. So if you do not have skins or cannot be bothered make patties instead of stuffed sausages. Another option is making them sausage shaped and dipping them in flour, egg and breadcrumbs. See sausage making can be simple.
AS CW. mentions there are many people on this site who will offer you help and advice
Markjass
Do no harm. Margerine is the biggest food crime
Oh YEAH? I'm a-callin' ya out! Sausages at twenty paces. (Usedta be typewriters, but everyone 'keyboards' nowadays.) Then we'll have some homebrew beer and... what were we talkin' about?Chuckwagon wrote:... And don't make me come down there!
Besides, the hot tub afterward (not to mention playing with the rubber duckie collection) will do you good. (Then we'll disinfect it all. See earlier post.)
Experience - the ability to instantly recognize a mistake when you make it again.
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Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Yup. ...but, like Markjass says, I keep it simple. I run 'em through the grinder after I run the sausage meat mince, instead of using rice like Ross suggests. Stuffing is optional, as is candy coating.Chuckwagon wrote:Hey Duckster....
Are you still peeling your M&M's?
"Another option is making them sausage shaped and dipping them in flour, egg and breadcrumbs. See, sausage making can be simple. "
...and you thought deep-fried Mars bars were good! Hah!
Experience - the ability to instantly recognize a mistake when you make it again.
