Kabanosy Smoking Problems

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 18:24

So I've tried this recipe several times: http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... s/kabanosy

My problems come in at smoking. I hold in the smoker at about 115F to dry for an hour then I bump it to 120 and start smoking. After the 90 min I leave it smoking then bumped to 170. It too about 6 hrs to reach 160 internal temp. The instructions say baking time should be about 20 min due to the small diameter. The first time I used 22-24 mm sheep casings and this last time I used 17 mm collagen.

Also, I've always read to slowly bump up the temps say every 20 min bump up 5 degrees or so. This doesn't say to do that. I also thought the upper limit of the smoker temp to keep fat from melting out was 170F

The smoking process is killing me. Even on other sausages.

Post by **Bob K** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 18:48

Something has to be off!

Have you calibrated any of the thermometers . smoker or what you test the meat with?

You can be surprised by how much they can vary.

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 18:54

Bob, yes I have a digital thermometer and I did the boiling water test and it matches the one in my smoker. Is 20 min all that's needed for snack sticks? Should I bump up the temp incrementally or just jump to 170? Should I go to 190 or is that too high?

I agree something is definitely off.

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 19:38

Just checked my temp probes... One is spot on... I looked up my elevation and I'm supposed to be at 211f for boiling water... My smoker probe is 212f...Maybe it's how I'm inserting the probe? I usual put it going parallel with the sausage from the end... Should I put it in there perpendicular? I usually only test the bigger casing if it varies.. Most of the time tho I don't have that much variation in size

Post by **Bob K** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 19:44

checkerfred

Tell folks what problem you are having.

I just guessed it was over cooking from the amount of time in the smoker.

Bob

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 19:57

Bob I'm sorry.... The main problem is the time it's taking to reach those internal temps... 6 hrs for a small diameter meat stick just isn't right. The secondary problems are I sometimes get fat rendering out and/or dryness on the ends. I don't use a water pan in the smoker.

Now even with these problems the sticks turned out decent. But just about every recipe I see for a small diameter meat stick calls for only 30-60 min actually cooking time.

So I want to know:
1.) how high is too high of a temp to set your smoker on and do I need to work up to the temp incrementally or just jump to the cooking temp.

2.) how long should the cooking process take to reach internal temps

Maybe I need to review the entire smoking cooking process.

Cabonaia · Post by **Cabonaia** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 08:18

Checker - regarding the fat rendering and resulting dryness, bring the external temp slowly up to 180 - 190F and no higher, and finish them at 145 or 150 and you shouldn't have this problem.

I don't have a gas or electric smoker - I finish them in the oven. So I can't comment on what's going on with your machine.

Hope this helps!

Jeff

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 17:52

Cabonaia wrote:Checker - regarding the fat rendering and resulting dryness, bring the external temp slowly up to 180 - 190F and no higher, and finish them at 145 or 150 and you shouldn't have this problem.

I don't have a gas or electric smoker - I finish them in the oven. So I can't comment on what's going on with your machine.

Hope this helps!

Jeff

Well they're venison so I'm supposed to cook to 160 right?

I figured out yesterday on my master built smoker that when it's cold and I turn the temp to say 170 it might read 150 or 160 or 170. It depends on if the element kicked on or not... So I think in cold weather I'm going to have to either put them in the oven or poach them after I smoke

Cabonaia · Post by **Cabonaia** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 18:16

Sorry, I didn't catch that you were using venison. I have never used venison, but it seems that at 170F you are going to get some pork fat rendering out and maybe you will just have to live with it. But somebody with venison Kabanosy experience might have a better answer for you.

Make sure you use sheep casings if you are going to poach. You can't put the collagen casings in water. But baking would probably be better in either case, if you want that wrinkled look.

Cheers,
Jeff

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 19:03

Cabonaia wrote:Sorry, I didn't catch that you were using venison. I have never used venison, but it seems that at 170F you are going to get some pork fat rendering out and maybe you will just have to live with it. But somebody with venison Kabanosy experience might have a better answer for you.

Make sure you use sheep casings if you are going to poach. You can't put the collagen casings in water. But baking would probably be better in either case, if you want that wrinkled look.

Cheers,
Jeff

Thanks Cabonaia. I've recently learned Kabanosy is meant to be wrinkled so no poaching and no showering I guess is in order

I've seen on other forums where people have the same problem with deer. I get it in summer sausage too with the fibrous casings when using deer. With natural casings its not too bad. It's almost like the fat melts some and then the collagen/fibrous casings won't shrink with the meat.

Cabonaia · Post by **Cabonaia** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 19:11

I have tried fibrous casings with capocollo and it has not shrunk well with the meat, leaving big pockets of air between meat and casing. That ended any experimentation with synthetics for dry cured stuff, but I know others have had success. I switched to natural beef bungs for the capocollo. More expensive, but definitely worth it.

I have never developed the patience for threading narrow sheep casings on a stuffer tube, but am happy with collagen for kabanosy.

When making lunch meats, I always use synthetic fibrous casings, which stand up well to poaching and a lot of weight.

Cheers,
Jeff

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 19:32

Cabonaia wrote:I have tried fibrous casings with capocollo and it has not shrunk well with the meat, leaving big pockets of air between meat and casing. That ended any experimentation with synthetics for dry cured stuff, but I know others have had success. I switched to natural beef bungs for the capocollo. More expensive, but definitely worth it.

I have never developed the patience for threading narrow sheep casings on a stuffer tube, but am happy with collagen for kabanosy.

When making lunch meats, I always use synthetic fibrous casings, which stand up well to poaching and a lot of weight.

Cheers,
Jeff

Thanks! I have some deer bologna that I'm going to work on today. I'll try finishing it off by poaching it and see what happens. What you mentioned with the air pockets is what I get when using deer for summer sausge in a 2" or so fibrous casing. I soak it and even try to stuff them as tight as possible. I've had a few actually break open because I tried to stuff them too tight.

Cabonaia · Post by **Cabonaia** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 20:18

Sounds good! I have never tasted deer bologna. You may already know this, but the secret to poaching big lunchmeat chubs like bologna is to start them in cold water and raise the temperature very slowly, then keeping within the 165-170F range, erring on the side of low, not high. Depending on the size of your casing, this can take a loooong time, so don't start at 9 PM unless you are a night owl. Once the meat has cooked for a while and firmed up, you can poke it now and then to drain the small fat puddles that may appear here and there.

I hope you send pictures of the finished product!

Jeff

Post by **Bob K** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 20:29

You guys need to get Protein-lined fibrous casings to get them to shrink with the meat. They are available from TSM in limited diameters but work real well.

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 20:43

Bob K wrote:You guys need to get Protein-lined fibrous casings to get them to shrink with the meat. They are available from TSM in limited diameters but work real well.

Thanks Bob, I have wondered about that and if that would help solve the problems. Are they fine to use with semi dry recipe's like summer sausage?