Project KB (For Beginners)

User avatar
Chuckwagon
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 4494
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
Location: Rocky Mountains

Post by Chuckwagon » Fri Aug 15, 2014 23:03

Thanks Jim & Jean. Glad you're with us. Have you tried the new 4-7/8" mahogany fibrous casing for this type of brown n' serve? Nice! :lol: I just slice off "disks" that are bread-sized and the wrapper just falls away. A quick "fry" in a dry black skillet and it's ready to eat.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
grasshopper
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 21:53
Location: pine city mn

Post by grasshopper » Sat Aug 16, 2014 02:27

Finished the chubs today and it went well. Going to let the hip shot hamburgers meld over night in the fridge. Probably doesn't make a difference.
Image

White fat to the out side
Image
User avatar
Chuckwagon
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 4494
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
Location: Rocky Mountains

Post by Chuckwagon » Sat Aug 16, 2014 05:50

Holy mackerel Mike! You've got it down to a fine science now. Looks great pal. I really like your choice of casing too. Those are the ones I use too. Just wait until Jim at 2Mnkids sees that photo. He'll probably bring bread and mustard to your house. Be kind and let him slice his own! :lol: Keep up the good work ol' buddy. How did your smoke turn out?

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
sambal badjak
Frequent User
Frequent User
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 15:41
Location: In the hot Zambezi Valley
Contact:

Post by sambal badjak » Sat Aug 16, 2014 07:07

Just a quick question about milk powder: Can I use full fat or full cream milk powder instead of low fat?
Or does the low fat milk powder have very different properties to the full fat?

Not wanting to be difficult, but full fat is the only stuff I can get here (the lite craze hasn't reached this part of africa yet, we still think that fat is beautiful :mrgreen: )
life is too short to drink bad wine (anonymus)
spud
User
User
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 01:10
Location: Perth, Australia

Post by spud » Sat Aug 16, 2014 09:31

I'm here ready to go.
Have the shoulder now and just picked up the 24mm sheep casings from MBL.
Also up to date with the reading assignments Boss√ .

On the very top of where I typing this there are two photo attaching sights, are they flop in buzzards or are they CW recommended. Fotosik.pl and imageshack.us..... I seem to remember seeing that the teaching aid uses photo bucket or something like that.

A little help her please young'uns.
I have adopted the attitude to get the most out of every opportunity so I'm expecting lots of show and tell pics from the KB Team isn't that right CW.

For me I wont be able to do the deed until Sunday night as we have a house full of grand kids.
Not that that is a bad thing its just there are a couple of babies so me thrashing around in the kitchen will get Boss Cockie's temperature up some what.

rgds Spud
SalP
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 03:47
Location: DFW, Texas

Post by SalP » Sat Aug 16, 2014 16:14

Wow grasshopper. That is what I want to get to with my sausage making.
grasshopper
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 21:53
Location: pine city mn

Post by grasshopper » Sat Aug 16, 2014 17:07

WOW CW That is a great tasting hip shot burger. Had to use 2% milk,that is all I had. I think I am being a little stingy on the fat. First time I didn't use salt or pepper. My patties are less then 1/2 lb.
Image

Image
Last edited by grasshopper on Sat Aug 16, 2014 23:10, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Chuckwagon
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 4494
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
Location: Rocky Mountains

Post by Chuckwagon » Sat Aug 16, 2014 19:52

Sambal Badjak wrote:
Just a quick question about milk powder: Can I use full fat or full cream milk powder instead of low fat? Or does the low fat milk powder have very different properties to the full fat? Not wanting to be difficult, but full fat is the only stuff I can get here (the lite craze hasn't reached this part of africa yet, we still think that fat is beautiful)
What? Women difficult? Are you kidding? Why... women are gorgeous! ... and never difficult! One of them even had the London Bridge delivered to Arizona - without being difficult! :roll:
Great question Sambal. Here`s the "scoop" on milk powder.

Non-Fat Dry Milk


The Journal Of Lipid Research has recently published a most interesting article regarding oxysterols also known as "oxidized cholesterol". The article in entitled, "Oxidized Cholesterol In The Diet - A Source Of Oxidized Lipoproteins In Humans" and may be found here: http://www.jlr.org/content/44/4/705.full

While milk powders contain all twenty-one standard amino acids (the building blocks of proteins), and are high in soluble vitamins and minerals, they also contain "oxidized cholesterol" - the worst type of cholesterol! Thus, the heated debate about NFDM goes on, even though most of the cholesterol in your body does not come from the food you eat, rather, it is manufactured by your own liver. Opponents yet cite the presence ofoxysterols along with high carbohydrate and high fat content. (By the way, fresh fruits and vegetables are rich in antioxidants - your best defense against oxidized cholesterol).

In 1984, three years before "defatted soy flour" was developed by PTI, Rytek Kutas (referring to non-fat dry milk) wrote on page 159 of his revised edition book, "If you are going to use a non-fat dry milk for a binder, your local dairy is usually the only place you can buy it today. The milk has to be a very fine powder and not the granules used for making milk at home. Better still, it should have the consistency of corn starch."

Let`s look at Non Fat Dry Milk. It contains:
36% protein
52% carbohydrates (mostly lactose)
1.3% calcium
1.8% potassium
26-40% fat
5-7% ash (minerals)

Proponents point out that although NFDM does not quite have the binding power of soy protein, non-fat dry milk powder is half lactose (sugar) and is often used in making fermented type "dry-cured" sausages such as salami and pepperoni. Why? It is ideal in supplying essential sugar to the lactic acid producing bacteria pediococcus acidilactici and lactobacillus curvatus. Although it is 36% protein, it is also known for improving the taste of low-fat sausages.

On the other hand, soy protein is often used in sausage making as a binder (not to be confused as a filler). As comminuted meat and fat particles are covered with the fine powder (having the consistency of corn starch), soy protein prevents fats from amalgamating and its water-holding ability only increases the firmness of a meat product. The amount added should not exceed 2-1/2% as the flavor of sausage becomes altered, most people calling it "beany" tasting.

Soy protein concentrate is produced by immobilizing soy globulin proteins while allowing soluble carbohydrates to be leached from the defatted flakes along with whey and salts. With these removed, soy protein flour remains. Now, (bear with me here....), there is a lot of technical saddle-bum science going on to further create edible soy protein concentrate and it involves the removal of specific aqueous acids :mad: in something called the isoelectric zone of minimum protein solubility. :shock: And no kidding... it is achieved by the use of... (ta da)... alcohol!

Long story short, the consumer winds up with soy protein concentrate at about 70% protein and it binds 4 part of water. Very helpful stuff in the food world. However, it contains a few other additives, including ash and fiber. Don`t ask me why. Shucks, there`s even 1% oil in the stuff. Shucks pard, it also takes one ton of defatted soybean flour to make 1653 pounds of soy protein concentrate. The list of the uses for soy protein concentrate in every industry you can imagine today is as long as my list of excuses for avoiding my ex-wife`s relatives!

In defence of soy protein, Stan Marianski has pointed out that it contains all three nutrients required for healthy nutrition - protein, carbohydrate, and fat - plus the benefits of vitamins and minerals, including calcium, folic acid, and iron. Soy is nearly nutritionally equivalent to meat! It`s oil is 61% polyunsaturated and 24% monounsaturated fat - comparable to the total unsaturated fat content of other vegetable oil. And ... it contains NO cholesterol.

For people who are lactose intolerant (me included), the development of soy protein concentrate and soy protein isolate are a Godsend and very much appreciated. Many of us don`t have a choice, but for those who do, I suggest trying both and weighing the facts listed above. Then make up your own mind.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
User avatar
Chuckwagon
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 4494
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
Location: Rocky Mountains

Post by Chuckwagon » Sat Aug 16, 2014 20:14

Spud, sounds like you are ready to make sausage! Good on ya for reading your homework! Graham, to tell you the truth, I`ve had to go to Photobucket because Fotostick was dumping everything I tried to post. It even stopped working. I`ve had nothing but trouble with them. On the other hand, Photobucket has been very reliable and user friendly. You may wish to consider using them for your photo attachments.
Has anyone else had problems posting photos with Fotostick? Would some of you photo techs please help out ol` "Spud" with his question?
Graham, a house full of grandkids is a blessing from heaven ol` pard. Pay attention to them and put the sausage making on hold for another day. When the end comes, you will not catch yourself saying, "Gee, I wish I`d have spent more time making sausages"!

SalP, actually you`re closer than you think to making great sausages like Grasshopper`s. Hang in there and stick with project KB. We`ll get you there pretty soon and you`ll be smilin` like a burro in a cactus patch! :lol:

Grasshopper, your Hipshot Hamburger looks wonderful. The cooked burger looks perfect! Nice goin` ol` pard. Serve those up at the company picnic and you`ll be elected Mayor! :shock:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
User avatar
el Ducko
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 1340
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 04:59
Location: Texas Hill Country
Contact:

Post by el Ducko » Sun Aug 17, 2014 03:44

Bob K wrote:...Also it is well documented what the maximum amount of nitrites/nitrates are allowable by various government agencies but what is the minimum amount needed (PPM) to avoid the possible development of botulism??????
Bob, stay tuned for, at best, an exciting and thought-provoking rundown on your nitrite question. ...or at least, an antidote to insomnia. ...or more likely, tonight's trite... uh...

UncaChuckwagon is editing my response even as we speak. ...email. ...whatever. Once he translates it from techno-babble into English, he promises to post it. ...then he'll probably "run for the hills." (I know I will.)
Duk
:mrgreen:
Experience - the ability to instantly recognize a mistake when you make it again.
User avatar
Chuckwagon
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 4494
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
Location: Rocky Mountains

Post by Chuckwagon » Sun Aug 17, 2014 05:26

Check Yourself UP!
True OR False (Circle one)
(answers are at the bottom of the post)

1. T F Comminuted means finely chopped.
2. T F When meat is finely chopped, several sources of proteins are exposed and when agitated, the proteins develop a sticky paste.
3. T F Good sausage must contain at least 50% fat.
4. T F Jerky is made using the very least possible fat, as it becomes rancid in the product over time.
5. T F Early man simply knew nothing about preserving meat, but as time passed, he found that by cooking, drying, and adding rainwater, it took longer to spoil.
6. T F Sodium nitrate and nitrite were found as natural contaminants in salt.
7. T F Sausages at first, were named for their place of origin.
8. T F As the four-bladed grinder knife presses against the plate, the friction may apply enough heat to the sausage to affect its quality.
9. T F Soy protein concentrate has up to 250% more protein than steak.
10. T F Soy protein concentrate causes meat to lose its juices.
11. T F Soy protein concentrate causes meat to retain its volume.
12. T F Soy protein concentrate used in fresh type sausage will keep the meat from "searing" or browning when cooked.
13. T F Powdered dextrose is about 144% as sweet as sugar.
14. T F A person should never reduce or increase the prescribed amount of salt in a sausage recipe, as precisely measured levels help destroy trichinae, inhibit growth of other bacteria and organisms, and serve as a binder.
15. T F Salt "fine-tunes" certain proteins in meat enabling them to hold water.
16. T B Good sausage must contain over 4% salt.
17. T F Prague Powder is sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite in a salt carrier.
18. T F Fermento is a bio-culture.
19. T F Fat Replacer is a product made by the Sausagemaker in Buffalo, New York and it the simulates creamy mouthfeel of fat because konjac flour and xanthan gum are both water soluble.
20. T F Fat Replacer is a proven cholesterol fighter and it is USDA approved.
21. T F Many beginners believe they can alter the precise techniques and processing procedures to suit their own tastes or circumstances, but usually find in due course, the quality of the product suffers and without a doubt, the recipe is to blame.
22. T F Glucose, produced from cornstarch, is only about 70% as sweet as sucrose refined from sugar beets or sugar cane.
23. T F The best sausage is made from random odds and ends and cuts from cheap meats can be made into the best sausages if they are disguised with something called offal.
24. T F Ice crystals rupturing meat cells during the freezing process is an old wives tale and it is absolutely false.
25. T F Meat should always be cut into small dice before being put through a grinder. This is so the grinder blades will remain sharp.
26. T F If you see "smearing" taking place or sausage exiting the plate holes looking bland and ragged, you`ll know you must take the grinder apart and oil the blade.
27. T F While you mix spices and cures, you should place your entire electric grinder into the freezer along with its plate and knife.
28. T F The USDA limits fat content in fresh pork sausage to 50% and 30% in beef sausage, although we`ve found that about 20-25% fat makes a much worse product.
29. T F For thousands of years, the best sausage recipes have been the most simple and often contain merely a sprinkling of only one or two spices.
30. T F Often beginners will place the grinder`s cutting knife in the machine backward then wonder why it will not cut.
31. T F Never mix Instacure (Prague Powder) by stirring it into cold water because it will not distribute evenly throughout the mixture.
32. T F The "primary bind" is just another name for the first three steps of fermentation of sausage.
33. T F Ground meat just does not naturally bind well or hold together, so in sausage making, we often add several eggs to solve the problem.
34. T F Natural casings are not used commercially since they vary in diameter and volume and always seem to burst open.
35. T F Hog casings are upper intestines sold in 91-meter lengths cut into "hanks" 1 to 2 meters long and gathered into bundles called "shorts".
36. T F Casings are measured by their diameter in millimeters and small breakfast sausages require lamb casings only.
37. T F Beef "rounds" derive their name from their characteristic "ring" shape, and are used for stuffing ring Bologna, ring liver sausage, and many other "ring" type sausages.
38. T F Natural casings should never be rinsed out with water.
39. T F Collagen casings should never be rinsed out with water.
40. T F Never attempt to lubricate the stuffer with butter or any other lubricant other than water, as this will affect the cooking-smoking of the skin later on.
41. T F Collagen is not synthetic, as most people seem to believe.
42. T F Casings on fresh sausage may be tough if they were not soaked long enough before being stuffed or if the product is cooked at too high a temperature for too short a period of time.
43. T F In butcher`s circles, the term "fresh" applied to meat may be a bit confusing, but "fresh" simply denote meat products that have not been cured with sodium nitrite or nitrate.
44. T F Actin and myosin are primarily responsible for creating the "sticky gel" that holds mixed, comminuted meat together.
45. T F Myoglobin consists of a typical amino acid protein concentration responsible for flavor intensity in meat.
46. T T EL DuckO ate lead paint chips as a duckling and will probably never, ever, be "right in the head"... never, ever again!... (danged rabid duck! :roll: ).
47. T F Non-fat milk powder contains "oxidized cholesterol" - the worst type of cholesterol.
48. T F The debate about non-fat dry milk powder continues in the sausage-making world, although most of the cholesterol in your body does not come from the food you eat, rather, it is manufactured by your own liver.
49. T F Soy protein concentrate contains no cholesterol.
50. T T Chuckwagon`s mustache is probably the greatest-looking mustache in the northern hemisphere.

1.T 2.T 3.F (20%-30%) 4.T 5.F 6.T 7.T 8.T 9.T 10.F 11.T 12.T 13.F 14.T 15.T 16.F 17.T 18.F 19.T 20.T 21.F 22.T 23.F 24.F 25.F 26.F 27.F 28.F 29.T 30.T 31.F 32.F 33.F 34.F 35.T 36.F 37.T 38.F 39.T 40.T 41.T 42.T 43.T 44.T 45.F 46.T 47.T 48.T 49.T
Last edited by Chuckwagon on Sun Aug 17, 2014 22:02, edited 2 times in total.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
User avatar
Chuckwagon
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 4494
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
Location: Rocky Mountains

Post by Chuckwagon » Sun Aug 17, 2014 05:27

BobK,
"El Ducko" and I went to different schools together! Yup,"the Duk" (Russ Lambert) is my friend and a PhD chemical engineer with 45+ years experience. He specialized (with many detours) in chemical reactor design and operation. The Duckster`s hobbies include making sausage, brewing beer, and telling corny jokes to his grand-kids. He has prepared an excellent response to your question regarding sodium nitrite at minimal levels.

El DuckO writes:

Regarding "How Much Nitrite is `Just Enough` ?"
There is a slow reaction that consumes the nitrite ion in cure #1, producing... well, let`s call it "stuff," in low level concentration but still toxic to bacteria. ("Stuff" consists of minute amounts of ions or free radicals, including nitric oxide, NO.) In addition to bacterial consumption of "stuff," there are other consumption reactions, plus dissipation.

Here`s a quick extract from Wikipedia:
Wikipedia wrote:
Nitric oxide (NO) exists as a free radical... and is an important intermediate in the chemical industry. In mammals including humans, NO is an important cellular signaling molecule involved in many physiological and pathological processes...
Nitric oxide should not be confused with nitrous oxide (N2O), an anesthetic and greenhouse gas, or with nitrogen dioxide (NO2), a brown toxic gas and a major air pollutant.
The reaction of "stuff" with bacteria is so fast, and the bacterial concentration consequently is so low, that it might as well be instantaneous. This and the other consumption reactions keep the concentration of "stuff" so low that there is, for all intents and purposes, no reverse reaction. The limiting reaction rate for the whole scheme appears to be the consumption of nitrite to "stuff," which is why you can find a nitrite concentration in meat to which nitrite has been added, but no appreciable "stuff."

How much nitrite should be present, and how long will it last? Well... depends on how fast it is being used up (a function of concentration and temperature). Below about 40°F, the bacterial growth rate is slow and nitrite isn`t necessary. Between 40° and about 150°F, the bacterial growth rate is appreciable, so you need nitrite. Bacterial growth rate increases exponentially with temperature. However, above 150°, the bacteria die, so you don`t need nitrite. Wouldn`t it be cool if you could put in just enough nitrite that it could all be used up on the way from 40° to 150°?

And here's why there is no straightforward answer to your question about nitrite- - "How much is just enough...?" It depends on the temperature history of the mix. The government guidelines are there simply to allow enough nitrite that, under reasonable conditions, at least some nitrite will present up until the meat is treated to a high enough temperature to kill the "bad guys."

What if you can`t add enough to out-last the consumption reactions? This happens in fermented sausages, which must be in the temperature "danger zone" for months.(We`re "jumping the gun," here, but you had to ask!) That`s why there is cure #2. This mixture generates cure #1, if you will, producing nitrite without exceeding the maximum guideline.

There is a reversible reaction between nitrate and nitrite. Since nitrite is being consumed, its concentration declines, causing more nitrate to be converted to nitrite. Thus, nitrate keeps nitrite available longer without exceeding the guideline nitrite maximum concentration. Overall, nitrite still gets consumed, but it also gets produced so long as nitrate is present, until we run out of nitrate and nitrite both, finally reaching a nitrite concentration close to zero.

By that time, though, another protective mechanism comes into play in fermented sausages. If your processing is correct, the amount of water lost is enough ("water activity" has been reduced) that the "bad guy" bacteria cannot grow. More about fermented sausages, later. More, too, about semi-dried, cooked sausages, another technique for our arsenal.

This nitrite/drying strategy has been quite effective in safeguarding sausages of the semi-dried, smoked, cooked variety, and when coupled with nitrate, is just as effective for the fermented variety.
_____________________________________________

Well said El Duk! I very much appreciate your knowledge and skill and your altruistic sharing of this information. Please keep up your fantastic support to Wedliny Domowe. Now... back to normal... where`s my dad-gummed 12 gauge? :roll: OOOOoooo
Last edited by Chuckwagon on Sun Aug 17, 2014 06:26, edited 2 times in total.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
User avatar
Shuswap
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 14:05
Location: British Columbia

Chunky Breakfast Sausage

Post by Shuswap » Sun Aug 17, 2014 15:54

Here is the stuffed breakfast sausage - pretty chunky and not very enticing but the flavor is good. :razz:

Image

CW I haven`t forgotten this exchange a while ago as it relates to making patties instead of stuffing.

Shuswap wrote:
Quote:
CW reading this thread I'm wondering if you use the dextrose, soy protein and milk in any fresh sausage that will be in patties

CW replied:
"Yep, I use it in all my "cured-smoked-cooked sausage" as long as it doesn`t interfere with other ingredients. (for example... wine with milk). The dextrose is only 70% as sweet as sugar and browns the product as nitrate/nitrite hinders the searing color. The soy protein is a terrific binder and preferred by the medical community. Milk adds flavor and improves the texture IF... you don't use too much. If you are sure to develop the proteins into a sticky mass, stuff a larger casing, prep-cook the thing to 148°, then you`ll have a great sausage to cut "disks" from that are perfect for a frying pan or griddle. I like sausage with rubbed sage and thyme prepared this way. It makes a perfect breakfast sausage when topped with a poached egg, on a croissant or breakfast bun."
User avatar
Bob K
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 15:16
Location: Northwest Ct

Post by Bob K » Sun Aug 17, 2014 16:23

Thank you Russ and Barry for the time and effort put in on that question!!!!

My personal conclusion is:
Better off staying on the high side of the allowed limit to be on the safe side (too many variables). Over time the stuff breaks down and isn't really a problem ( issue ) in the final product.

Also sorry for taking time out of project KB.
grasshopper
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 21:53
Location: pine city mn

Post by grasshopper » Sun Aug 17, 2014 17:46

My question is how long will, Cured, Cooked, And Smoked Sausage last in the fridge. Freeze and thaw does change the texture and some taste. I would like to keep the original as long as I can. Or what is the best way.
Post Reply