Mixing Molded & Unmolded In The Same Cabinet?

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jrittvo
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Mixing Molded & Unmolded In The Same Cabinet?

Post by jrittvo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 20:34

I`m a few days away from having a working dry curing cabinet. (Also a separate fermenting chamber, after I killed the first refrigerator by cutting two 2" holes in the sides, before reading here about coils buried inside of the side walls.) Someday, I can envision having a few different things aging in the curing cabinet, and I am wondering if it is possible to mix some with Bactoferm 600 mold applied and growing, and others wiped down with vinegar or treated with Potassium Sorbate, to stay clean, in the same chamber at the same time. Will it work? Is it a foolish idea?
cathouse willy
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Post by cathouse willy » Sun Apr 15, 2018 21:13

I think that it would be a constant battle to keep the mold from spreading. I'd take the easy way and case the meat I want mold free in casings or pasted sheets and then peel them.
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Post by Bob K » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:18

I would agree with cathouse willy that it would be a constant battle to keep some of them mold free, so no it won't work.
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Post by airbrush » Mon Apr 16, 2018 18:58

It's comforting to hear that I'm not the only one finding a freon line in the side of a fridge. :lol: :sad: :lol:
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Post by jrittvo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 21:09

I cut two holes, and both went through the lines that I guess are the waste heat dissipation coils. I didn't realize I'd cut the first (at the very top of the hole) until I cut the second (right across the middle of that hole).

The saving grace is that were I live, in western Colorado, the air is very dry year round. My house never gets above 30% humidity. In the fermentation chamber, the bit of evaporation I seem to get through the 2 ill-fated holes is enough to drop the temperature inside of it almost 15 degrees below room temperature, when I set the humidity inside the chamber at 85 - 90%. (At 75 degrees ambient, the fermenting cabinet with 90% humidity pumped inside and the holes holds at 60 degrees inside!)

So I expect that it will mostly need a little heating, and never any cooling. Basically, it turns into what they call a "swamp cooler" around here - an evaporative chiller. People use them, in central systems, instead of a compressor/refrigerant based air conditioner. Of course, I could have gotten the same effect in any vented box, which is what the refrigerator in now after my cutting, lol.

On the mold, I am very appreciative of the advice. I'll take the benefits of the mold on everything in the chamber during drying and clean up anything I want looking mold-less at the end of the curing.
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Post by MatterOne » Fri May 04, 2018 01:54

cathouse willy wrote:I think that it would be a constant battle to keep the mold from spreading. I'd take the easy way and case the meat I want mold free in casings or pasted sheets and then peel them.
Bob K wrote: I would agree with cathouse willy that it would be a constant battle to keep some of them mold free, so no it won't work.
Does potassium sorbate not work well?
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Post by Bob K » Fri May 04, 2018 13:09

If you add product to a chamber with mold already established it is difficult to keep it from growing.
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Post by jrittvo » Fri May 04, 2018 18:06

Butcher shop visit permitting, I should be putting my first products into the chambers in the next 10 days. My goal is more about watching and learning than anything else on this first round. So I can experiment. They are virgin chambers, so not a very good test because there will be no ambient mold yet in the mix, but I will try most items with the mold applied and 1 or 2 with PS. I will report back.
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Post by jrittvo » Sat Jul 21, 2018 04:32

Seems I am moving much slower than I anticipated.

I added a new piece to the chamber recently that has others drying in it already, with good coatings of mold. They were dipped, but the new one was not, and it acquired nice white mold pretty fast, so I know the chamber is "lively" with the 600 mold.

The next piece going in is a guanciale. I am going to try the Potassium Sorbate on it to see if it can fight the mold without affecting the other pieces. I`d like the jowl to not have mold, but it`ll be ok if the PS doesn`t work with it. Should know in a few weeks - the jowl still needs to be in the refrigerator for another week.
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Sun Jul 22, 2018 13:05

I had a Frigidaire refrigerator that was used for sodas on the lower level of the house for the swimming pool. The unit was only 2 years old. I decided to modify it and drill it. If done properly, I could always use it for sodas when I wasn`t making meat. Well, I hit the coil in the side wall. LOL. I told my wife I needed to buy a new one. This time, I drilled from the inside out so I could see the coils before I hit them. Everything worked great,,,,until 6 months later, my compressor took a dump. Can you imagine calling Frigidaire for a warranty claim with a hole drilled in the side? LOL. By this time, my wife was pissed. I kept the old one and I use it for my fermentation chamber. It`s great. In the meantime, I bought a commercial double door, all stainless interior 34 cubic foot Turbo air with the digital readout on the outside. I was hoping to be able to set the stat for 54 degrees. Well. The manufacture wont let you take the temp that high. I`m not drilling it. I have everything running thru the gaskets and it`s cheaper to replace the gasket if I need to. The unit is large enough that I can physically roll a dehumidifier and humidity into it and place it on the bottom and still have 100 pounds of meat in it. As far as circulation, I just open the door once a day. Man, does it work beautiful. It`s the best thing I ever decided to do.
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Post by redzed » Sun Jul 22, 2018 14:44

The P. sorbate should work well for about 2-3 weeks then you might have to treat it again, or just keep brushing it off.
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Post by jrittvo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 03:23

You nailed it, redzed. At 3 weeks there is a hint of white mold starting to be visible on the PS treated items. I`ll brush it off and retreat them today.

Interesting side note. The pieces are both jowls, same size. One is hanging naked. The other has a coating of spices on the outside after rinsing on the way from the fridge to the drying chamber. I wrapped that one in collagen sheeting so when I dipped it in the PS the seasoning would hopefully not wash off. The naked one is drying much faster than the wrapped one.

I have a similar situation with my first salamis. Half in protein lined fibrous and half in the same diameter beef middles. The fibrous is drying much faster than the natural.

I prefer the idea of slower drying, so I plan to try to stick with middles and bungs for casings from now on. I did a coppa that is also coated in seasonings, and I rolled a sheet of shiny Mylar around it, fed the bung fully over the Mylar, and slid the Mylar out. Seems to preserve the placement of the seasonings. I`ll do some pictures of this "method" in another thread then next time I do it.
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Post by redzed » Thu Aug 30, 2018 13:50

That's interesting. I don't think I've really noticed any significant difference. Since you have half of the sausage in natural and half in fibrous, please post the stats on the drying and the final results.
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Post by jrittvo » Fri Aug 31, 2018 04:14

I`ll do a good controlled experiment on the next batch. These are 2 slightly different recipes, 5% fat difference and 30 ml. of wine different (for 4.4 kilo each). Not sure if either is enough to make a real difference, but it would be better to remove all variables except the casing material. But that raises a big question I have had that I will start a new thread about: What is the starting weight? I will measure this also, next time, but I bet the soaked natural casing adds 10% to the weight of what is inside it. If you take the item down to a 40% loss, how much of that is casing water and how much is meat water? The casing seems very dry when the item is ready, so I think all of that water is lost. Anyway, I`ll move this issue to a new thread tomorrow in case anyone has interest or thoughts. There is probably an algebraic solution, but I wouldn`t know how to relate that to say SM recipes.
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