So let's talk about salt percentages....

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Indaswamp
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So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Indaswamp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 04:32

I realize that this may be a loaded topic because standards and regulations vary across the globe, but I am searching for the definitive USDA regulations pertaining to the min.-max. percentages of salt for slow fermented southern European style salami. I can find the regulations for fast fermented American style salami, but am having a hard time finding the regs. in the US for slow fermented salami salt percentages.

Is it 2%-3% salt?
2.5-3.0% salt?
3.0% period....and don't use any less?

This is for home crafted salami, but with the use of a pH meter; no Aw meter.

Looking through the Marianski material and it is unclear...

The Art of Making Fermented Sausages:
Safety Hurdles, page 75:
"To prevent the danger of Clostridium, botulinum in fermented products that are classified as shelf stable, nitrite/nitrate should be added at a minimum of 100 ppm along with a minimum of 2.5% salt."

Salt, page 80:
" The more salt applied to the meat the stronger the fence is created against unwanted bacteria. But to stop them from growing by salt alone, the salt levels will have to be so high that the product will not be edible. Such a product will have to be soaked for a long time in running water in order to be consumed. What's more, applying salt at more than 4% will inhibit lactic bacteria from producing lactic acid and as a result little fermentation will take place. Well, if stopping them with salt entirely is not a practical solution then how about making life for them just miserable? And this is exactly what we do by adding between 2.5%-3% salt into the minced meat."


I also found this at the Marianski meatsandsausagesDOTcom site:

under Making Traditional slow fermented sausage:

" Ingredients. Only top quality ingredients should be used (fine salt, sugar, nitrite/nitrate, freshly ground spices, etc,) but use of fresh spices (garlic, onion, parsley, oregano, etc) is prohibited. Fresh spices contain moisture and bacteria of unknown nature and may contaminate and spoil the sausage. If starter cultures are used they should be stored at low temperatures according to supplier recommendations. At least 2.5 % salt (25 g salt/1 kg of meat) should be added which will help to lower water activity and inhibit the growth of bacteria. which will help to lower water activity and inhibit the growth of bacteria."

https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausag ... raditional
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Indaswamp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 04:34

In short, I guess what I am asking....is 2.5% salt safe for slow fermented style salami made with bio-protective culture?? What are you basing this decision on? Can you point me to the science and or regulations to back it up the use of 2.5% salt?

Thanks in advance...

I see recipes posted here using 2.5% total salt. And I'd like to expand my education backed up with facts.
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Indaswamp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 06:08

As a side note, I found the regs. for dry cured fermented sausages are reserved...

http://federal.elaws.us/cfr/title9.part319.subpartj

Can anyone shed some light on why the regs. are reserved? I would think US code is open to the public?
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by jcflorida » Thu Mar 04, 2021 14:41

In US Government documents, the word reserved generally means that a section title has been placed in the document, but that nothing has been put in the section (yet). It does not generally mean that information in the section is being covered up.
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Indaswamp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 15:05

Thanks jcflorida.
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Bob K » Thu Mar 04, 2021 15:08

Indaswamp wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 04:32
but I am searching for the definitive USDA regulations pertaining to the min.-max. percentages of salt for slow fermented southern European style salami. I can find the regulations for fast fermented American style salami
Do those regulations contain actual min-max amounts or an approved plan for production
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Indaswamp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 15:19

Bob K wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 15:08
Indaswamp wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 04:32
but I am searching for the definitive USDA regulations pertaining to the min.-max. percentages of salt for slow fermented southern European style salami. I can find the regulations for fast fermented American style salami
Do those regulations contain actual min-max amounts or an approved plan for production
I have no idea Bob...I've not been able to view the regulations yet. It is [reserved]. I plan on contacting the FDA or the USDA and inquire about the regs.

The thrust on my post was that I see many here using recipes for dry cured salami with less than 3% total salt. I see in Marianski's material many places where he recommends a minimum of 2.5% salt. Just looking for answers on minimum salt for safety.
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by jcflorida » Thu Mar 04, 2021 18:00

Indaswamp wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 15:19
I plan on contacting the FDA or the USDA and inquire about the regs.
Scroll down to the last paragraph in this CFR help site page. It explains the use of "reserved"
https://www.govinfo.gov/help/cfr
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Indaswamp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 18:51

Thanks jcflorida.
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by redzed » Sun Mar 07, 2021 05:07

I realize that this may be a loaded topic because standards and regulations vary across the globe, but I am searching for the definitive USDA regulations pertaining to the min.-max. percentages of salt for slow fermented southern European style salami. I can find the regulations for fast fermented American style salami, but am having a hard time finding the regs. in the US for slow fermented salami salt percentages

That is a very good question, but answering it is not that simple. Sodium chloride is a GRAS ingredient which is self regulating because if too much is added it will be inedible. GRAS stands "generally recognized as safe". For that reason there are no restrictions (minimum or maximum)that regulate the amount of sodium chloride added to cured meats. However, when a producer of dry cured products presents their HACCP (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points) plan to the authorities, the amount of salt will be a critical component, but not the only one. There is a considerable body of meat science literature on the subject of the minimum amount of salt which can be used in the production of salami and similar products.

I'm a bit tied up with other issues at this time, but as soon as I am able, I'll post excerpts and links from which you can make your own conclusions.
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Indaswamp » Sun Mar 07, 2021 05:48

Thank you Redzed! I can handle the science...

I do realize that parameters play an important role in safety...i.e. how fast and how far the pH drops. Lower and faster, you need less salt for safety because the acid and salt work synergistically.

I just got into making salami about a year ago and have been using the flavor of Italy culture. From my understanding, it is a fast fermenting culture even at low temps. of 68-69*F. It has both a Pediococcus and a LActo. Sakei strain that produce bioprotective agents against Lysteria.
And though I have not seen the spec. sheet, it is claimed to have a Staph, Carnosus Utilus strain that can still work below 5.0 down to 4.7.
So you get the benefits of fast acid production for safety hurdle, and the flavor development. So you can simulate a slow ferment with a fast ferment culture. At least that's my understanding.

So, being that I've been making fast ferment salamis, I have been using 2.5% total salt (measured Salt + the carrier salt in the cure). I like the lower salt taste wise. If I have to use 3% for a slow ferment when I get around to trying it, I will.
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by StefanS » Sun Mar 07, 2021 16:52

Personally i don't think so that you can find any strict Government regulations on salt amount. In production of fermented "salamis" as well as other meat products I'm using "common sense" and good practices. Underlaying scientific theory is that 2.5 % of salt (with nitrites) added to raw salamis is lowest safe amount (starter culture is not mentioned and it is not that important) (G. Feiner - "Salami , practical science and processing technology" p. 62: F. Toldra - "Handbook...." also "Dry cured meats": Elsevier - science publications). With whole muscle cured meats i'm using 2.5-3.5 %of salt (depends on cuts, size, fat content).
Indaswamp wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 05:48
how fast and how far the pH drops. Lower and faster, you need less salt for safety because the acid and salt work synergistically.
not exactly - lowering salt amount will have other consequences (taste, solubilizing of proteins, texture etc.).BTW - Salami or Polish style kielbasa - always i'm using 48-72 hours meats curing before processing. (protein solubilization, interaction between actin and myosin)
Indaswamp wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 05:48
I just got into making salami about a year ago and have been using the flavor of Italy culture. From my understanding, it is a fast fermenting culture even at low temps. of 68-69*F. It has both a Pediococcus and a LActo. Sakei strain that produce bioprotective agents against Lysteria.
And though I have not seen the spec. sheet, it is claimed to have a Staph, Carnosus Utilus strain that can still work below 5.0 down to 4.7.
So you get the benefits of fast acid production for safety hurdle, and the flavor development.
It is great that you're interested in deep digging in some principles of salami making. Some of us here are little longer in that excited hobby also digging that deep. Myself always trying take under consideration that many researches, scientific papers are made in vitro not in vivo as also many institutes and labs are financially dependable on commercial producers not Governments. Strict regulations are important, level of salt, strains of bacteria, bio-protective starters also important - but also common sense and good practices are very important. If you screw-up one piece of process it doesn't matter what kind of regulations you used, what starter you used - it will end with spoilage.
Just my opinion on that matter.
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Butterbean » Sun Mar 07, 2021 20:10

I suspect the reason they have the area marked reserved is the same as saying "it depends" and there is no clearcut rule to follow and you have to submit your plan and procedure for approval. I make a few things which - if I sold them - would require a waiver or a plan showing how the safety hurdles are met.
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Re: So let's talk about salt percentages....

Post by Indaswamp » Sun Mar 07, 2021 21:14

redzed wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 05:07
I realize that this may be a loaded topic because standards and regulations vary across the globe, but I am searching for the definitive USDA regulations pertaining to the min.-max. percentages of salt for slow fermented southern European style salami. I can find the regulations for fast fermented American style salami, but am having a hard time finding the regs. in the US for slow fermented salami salt percentages

That is a very good question, but answering it is not that simple. Sodium chloride is a GRAS ingredient which is self regulating because if too much is added it will be inedible. GRAS stands "generally recognized as safe". For that reason there are no restrictions (minimum or maximum)that regulate the amount of sodium chloride added to cured meats. However, when a producer of dry cured products presents their HACCP (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points) plan to the authorities, the amount of salt will be a critical component, but not the only one. There is a considerable body of meat science literature on the subject of the minimum amount of salt which can be used in the production of salami and similar products.

I'm a bit tied up with other issues at this time, but as soon as I am able, I'll post excerpts and links from which you can make your own conclusions.
Looking at the graphs of salt percentages in Marianski's book on Fermented sausages, it seems that above 4% salt and it starts to interfere with the good bacteria and is not as strong a hurdle as 3% salt. So obviously there is a sweet spot....
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