Hi, all. I just started making sausages a few months ago & have found some great info on this forum, so decided to join! I have a batch of dry-cured salami going right now that is driving me a bit nuts, and I think I've worked out some of the causes, but would like some input.
I basically made the Hungarian salami recipe from Polcyn/Ruhlman. Meat & fat frozen separately, cut into 1.5" cubes, & ground separately & ground partially thawed. Mixed on a stand mixer for a minute or two. Mix refrigerated a couple days prior to stuffing. Curing conditions tightly controlled, started ~75*F and 75% humidity for the first couple days, then dropped and held at ~60*F & 65% humidity for the past 7 weeks. There is gentle air flow through the curing chamber. Light white mold on all the salami, though not much on several.
I weighed each salami after stuffing & have re-weighed them weekly; averaging weight loss the salami has lost about 27.5% at this point.
Three of the nine salami hanging feel & look great! (I had a mini one ready a week ago & tried it... pretty happy overall.) However, 6 of the 9 still feel about as mushy as when I stuffed them. Some are obviously dried out (firmer & smaller) more toward the top of the salami, but the bottom 2/3 are soft. Some of the others are soft throughout.
I'd just about swear that more of the salami was firm when I checked last week... it sure seems like I had 6 of 9 that were GOOD. But can a salami go from firm to soft? Would that happen if it spoiled somehow? Or do I just have really bad recollection?
The salami's been averaging 1% weight loss per week for the past several weeks, so theoretically I should be good to go in a few weeks... but why in the world are some salami good now, & others hardly feel like they've started curing (is that the right use of "curing?")
Stuffing conditions were not ideal... had to use a hand-crank grinder w/stuffing star. And though refrigerated, the meat stuffed far better (better=easier & firmer) once we had partially frozen 2-3" balls. (Oh, stuffed into fibrous casing ~2.5-3" diameter.) I wonder if the refrigerated-only mix was too soft & the salami have too much air or something?
From what I gather, smearing is a good possible culprit. But why then are some good?
A greasy casing can slow water loss... and the casings were definitely greasy when hung. Would it do any good to wipe them down with some vinegar or something now?
Any other ideas/suggestions? Thanks!
Some good salami, some still mushy
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charcutebrew
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Chuckwagon
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Hi Charcutebrew,
How about posting your recipe and a few photos to help us figure out how to give you a hand. Did you make all the salami the same diameter and weight? What is the percentage of your target yield weight?
Be aware that insufficient moisture loss may be caused by excessive humidity or excessive air speed and/or too low humidity sealing the surface pores, causing "case hardening" and dry rim. If you`ve smoked the product, be aware that initial excessive smoke may coagulate surface proteins retarding proper moisture. Other causes of insufficient moisture loss include too high pH and no acidification. Of course, any smearing during grinding may prevent water loss also. If the casing has become greasy due to melted fat, the moisture migration potential through the casing will be greatly reduced.
On the other hand, if you experience too much moisture loss, check the air velocity as it may be too fast, causing too low a humidity, thus excessive drying. Too fast acidification may be the culprit and often the wrong culture has been used.
If your final product is mushy, it may be because the mixture was over-worked at the mixer, chopper, or the grinder. If there is excessive fat in the mixture, it may also cause the final product to be mushy. Other causes include insufficient salt or no salt in the mixture and even possibly spoiled raw material, although it didn`t actually look or smell bad at the onset. Also, proteolytic microbial contamination is always a possibility when considering a final mushy-textured product.
My advice is to check the salami regularly for any off-colored molds, weight loss, and general condition of the sausage. Also, check your curing chamber for the correct air speed. It should only be a couple of miles per hour. If you don`t know how to calculate it, click on this link: http://www.comairrotron.com/airflow_calc.shtml
For a discussion on the matter of air-speed, click on this link: http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... =air+speed
Last, but not least, do yourself a favor and purchase a copy of "The Art Of Making Fermented Sausages"... by Stan and Adam Marianski. Find it at Bookmagic.com. Sure your "charcuterie" book is a good book (I have a copy too), but Stan & Adam Marianski`s book is a great book and it is probably the most comprehensive writing on the subject worldwide. As far as I`m concerned, it is light years ahead of other publications on the subject. I also believe Stan Marianski is the leading authority on the subject of dry-cured sausage in the world today! Here is a link to preview his book. When the page comes up, click on the chapters on the lower left side for preview reading: http://bookmagic.com/books/art-of-makin ... d-sausages
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
How about posting your recipe and a few photos to help us figure out how to give you a hand. Did you make all the salami the same diameter and weight? What is the percentage of your target yield weight?
Be aware that insufficient moisture loss may be caused by excessive humidity or excessive air speed and/or too low humidity sealing the surface pores, causing "case hardening" and dry rim. If you`ve smoked the product, be aware that initial excessive smoke may coagulate surface proteins retarding proper moisture. Other causes of insufficient moisture loss include too high pH and no acidification. Of course, any smearing during grinding may prevent water loss also. If the casing has become greasy due to melted fat, the moisture migration potential through the casing will be greatly reduced.
On the other hand, if you experience too much moisture loss, check the air velocity as it may be too fast, causing too low a humidity, thus excessive drying. Too fast acidification may be the culprit and often the wrong culture has been used.
If your final product is mushy, it may be because the mixture was over-worked at the mixer, chopper, or the grinder. If there is excessive fat in the mixture, it may also cause the final product to be mushy. Other causes include insufficient salt or no salt in the mixture and even possibly spoiled raw material, although it didn`t actually look or smell bad at the onset. Also, proteolytic microbial contamination is always a possibility when considering a final mushy-textured product.
My advice is to check the salami regularly for any off-colored molds, weight loss, and general condition of the sausage. Also, check your curing chamber for the correct air speed. It should only be a couple of miles per hour. If you don`t know how to calculate it, click on this link: http://www.comairrotron.com/airflow_calc.shtml
For a discussion on the matter of air-speed, click on this link: http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... =air+speed
Last, but not least, do yourself a favor and purchase a copy of "The Art Of Making Fermented Sausages"... by Stan and Adam Marianski. Find it at Bookmagic.com. Sure your "charcuterie" book is a good book (I have a copy too), but Stan & Adam Marianski`s book is a great book and it is probably the most comprehensive writing on the subject worldwide. As far as I`m concerned, it is light years ahead of other publications on the subject. I also believe Stan Marianski is the leading authority on the subject of dry-cured sausage in the world today! Here is a link to preview his book. When the page comes up, click on the chapters on the lower left side for preview reading: http://bookmagic.com/books/art-of-makin ... d-sausages
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! 
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charcutebrew
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- Location: Michigan
Hi Chuckwagon, thanks for the response!
I'll take some better pics of the funky salami & get those up (what I shot the other day doesn't have enough detail).
The salami is all in the same diameter & type of casing; a local butcher helped me out, selling me some of the fibrous casing he had on hand, so I don't know the exact size, but I'd guess closer to 2.5"? Most of the salami started out at about 1.5 pounds, with a target finished weight (assuming 30% loss) of around 1.1 pounds.
The humidity never got higher than 80%, and that was just in the first day or two. It's been almost exactly 65% the whole time it's hung. No signs of case hardening. Airflow would be really tricky to calculate, to say that I've "rigged up" the curing chamber is an understatement, but hey, it's held great conditions.
I used FRM 52, so there should be acidification. I followed the recipe closely, so salt & fat should be proportional and balanced (though I'd probably choose to use a little less fat in the next batch).
The meat was pretty much frozen going into the grinder so I don't think it warmed up too much. But I could definitely see where it would get overworked stuffing through a hand-crank grinder w/stuffing star. The one salami I cut into didn't have the definition of, say, the salami on the cover of "charcuterie." So smearing could be a culprit. I thought having the mix refrigerated would work, but maybe not. The last 2/3 of the batch we did w/part-frozen "meat balls."
My hands were covered in sausage as I handled the casings, and I had a few "blow-outs" (my first time stuffing) so there was some sausage on the prep area. I didn't know that the casing shouldn't be greasy. Would it make sense for me to clean the salami now?
I built a piston-style sausage stuffer after using the converted grinder, but my design was inherently flawed. I'm going to try a narrower diameter version, & if that doesn't work just give in & buy a good stainless one. The book you recommended, along w/one or two others, are on the short list!
Questions:
Is it possible for salami to go soft once it's been hard?
After seven weeks, is there a chance that cleaning a greasy casing could help?
Could the mushiness be related to having introduced too much air during stuffing?
I'll take some better pics of the funky salami & get those up (what I shot the other day doesn't have enough detail).
The salami is all in the same diameter & type of casing; a local butcher helped me out, selling me some of the fibrous casing he had on hand, so I don't know the exact size, but I'd guess closer to 2.5"? Most of the salami started out at about 1.5 pounds, with a target finished weight (assuming 30% loss) of around 1.1 pounds.
The humidity never got higher than 80%, and that was just in the first day or two. It's been almost exactly 65% the whole time it's hung. No signs of case hardening. Airflow would be really tricky to calculate, to say that I've "rigged up" the curing chamber is an understatement, but hey, it's held great conditions.
I used FRM 52, so there should be acidification. I followed the recipe closely, so salt & fat should be proportional and balanced (though I'd probably choose to use a little less fat in the next batch).
The meat was pretty much frozen going into the grinder so I don't think it warmed up too much. But I could definitely see where it would get overworked stuffing through a hand-crank grinder w/stuffing star. The one salami I cut into didn't have the definition of, say, the salami on the cover of "charcuterie." So smearing could be a culprit. I thought having the mix refrigerated would work, but maybe not. The last 2/3 of the batch we did w/part-frozen "meat balls."
My hands were covered in sausage as I handled the casings, and I had a few "blow-outs" (my first time stuffing) so there was some sausage on the prep area. I didn't know that the casing shouldn't be greasy. Would it make sense for me to clean the salami now?
I built a piston-style sausage stuffer after using the converted grinder, but my design was inherently flawed. I'm going to try a narrower diameter version, & if that doesn't work just give in & buy a good stainless one. The book you recommended, along w/one or two others, are on the short list!
Questions:
Is it possible for salami to go soft once it's been hard?
After seven weeks, is there a chance that cleaning a greasy casing could help?
Could the mushiness be related to having introduced too much air during stuffing?
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Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Charcutebrew, you asked:
When I was young and crazy, I put some basil from my garden directly into a batch of sausage. In merely eight hours (even though it was inside a 38°; F. cooler, the bad bacteria completely ruined the batch and it smelled so bad that all the horses and cows stampeded and left the ranch along with the waddies and wranglers! All the plants wilted and the neighbors 9 miles down the canyon, called me up to tell me about the odor! Peee-Yooo! After that, I used only sterilized spices in the mixture.
You mentioned a "greasy" coating on the sausage. Would you describe the texture as "slimy"? Note that when air speed is restricted or non-existent in high humidity, slime will form on the sausage because insufficient drying is taking place. After fermentation has occurred, the drying can be stepped up slightly if desired. So, when does fermentation stop and drying begins? In traditionally made (no culture added), fermented sausage, the process can take quite a long period of time because the low-sugar (slowly-fermented) meat simply does not produce high levels of lactic acid. Now, follow me on this next one... Most folks believe that it is the amount of time that determines when the fermentation is completed. It is not! It is the sausage`s pH factor that tells us when the fermentation is finished. In two different samples of sausage with the same amount of sugar added, the one with the faster fermentation will display a lower pH.
As you know, when the pH drops, the acidity in your salami rises. Right around 4.9 or 5.0 it reaches its "isoelectric point". This is when moisture removal becomes easier because the binding forces become weaker. This is the point where the sausage becomes noticeably firmer. In traditionally made sausage (with much lower sugar content), the fermentation slows to a snails pace because of... not only lower temperatures, but because the lactic acid - producing bacteria have become inactive without food (sugar).
And, oh yes, you mentioned being surprised at the initial lower temperature during curing, preceding the lag phase. There is simply no choice here, as the variables are confined to only a few degrees of temperature. During the curing period, we must increase lactobacillus and pediococcus as quickly as possible. While these lactic acid-producing bacteria are working overtime, we must protect the comminuted meat from spoilage during the 72 to 96 hour fermentation period. The temperature MUST be as near 38°; F. (3°; C.) as possible, varying only a couple of degree higher or lower. Temperatures much higher can allow the meat to begin spoiling, while temperatures much below that level, can restrict the effectiveness of the lactobacilli. Color fixing and flavor forming staphylococcus and micrococcus (kokuria) are also active during this period of fermentation. One last thought. Never alter the salt content trying to improve the sausage. At 3%, salt permits lactobacilli, pediococci, staphylococci, and micrococci to work well while spoilage and pathogenic bacteria are literally crowded out of the way.
You asked:
To answer your question. Yes, it wouldn`t hurt a bit. The reason I say that is if there is slime, get rid of it. If there is evidence of yeasts or colored molds, get rid of them too. In my opinion, you should allow the full time period suggested in the recipe, then cut into one and make an assessment. Allow it to mature. There might not be a thing wrong with the stuff. Let nature do its work and go make some great kielbasa and kabanosy while you wait.
You also asked:
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If not mixed, cured, fermented, and aged properly, it may be susceptible to spoilage bacteria such as pseudomonas spp. or brochotrix thermosphacta. Although these guys don`t produce toxins, they can cause slime, discoloration, and whew!... awful odors! They can also completely change the texture of an organic substance. Other spoilage bacteria are even effective at low temperatures. Have you ever left something in your refrigerator for a long period of time? Maybe celery or salad? Do you remember what happened to it? After a period of time, your celery inside a plastic bag became a brown, foul, liquid. So, how do we stop this stuff? Dehydration. Spoilage bacteria just love water. If we "bind" or limit the amount of water available to these microorganisms, they will stop growing... and it happens at Aw 0.97 and lower.Is it possible for salami to go soft once it's been hard?
When I was young and crazy, I put some basil from my garden directly into a batch of sausage. In merely eight hours (even though it was inside a 38°; F. cooler, the bad bacteria completely ruined the batch and it smelled so bad that all the horses and cows stampeded and left the ranch along with the waddies and wranglers! All the plants wilted and the neighbors 9 miles down the canyon, called me up to tell me about the odor! Peee-Yooo! After that, I used only sterilized spices in the mixture.
You mentioned a "greasy" coating on the sausage. Would you describe the texture as "slimy"? Note that when air speed is restricted or non-existent in high humidity, slime will form on the sausage because insufficient drying is taking place. After fermentation has occurred, the drying can be stepped up slightly if desired. So, when does fermentation stop and drying begins? In traditionally made (no culture added), fermented sausage, the process can take quite a long period of time because the low-sugar (slowly-fermented) meat simply does not produce high levels of lactic acid. Now, follow me on this next one... Most folks believe that it is the amount of time that determines when the fermentation is completed. It is not! It is the sausage`s pH factor that tells us when the fermentation is finished. In two different samples of sausage with the same amount of sugar added, the one with the faster fermentation will display a lower pH.
As you know, when the pH drops, the acidity in your salami rises. Right around 4.9 or 5.0 it reaches its "isoelectric point". This is when moisture removal becomes easier because the binding forces become weaker. This is the point where the sausage becomes noticeably firmer. In traditionally made sausage (with much lower sugar content), the fermentation slows to a snails pace because of... not only lower temperatures, but because the lactic acid - producing bacteria have become inactive without food (sugar).
And, oh yes, you mentioned being surprised at the initial lower temperature during curing, preceding the lag phase. There is simply no choice here, as the variables are confined to only a few degrees of temperature. During the curing period, we must increase lactobacillus and pediococcus as quickly as possible. While these lactic acid-producing bacteria are working overtime, we must protect the comminuted meat from spoilage during the 72 to 96 hour fermentation period. The temperature MUST be as near 38°; F. (3°; C.) as possible, varying only a couple of degree higher or lower. Temperatures much higher can allow the meat to begin spoiling, while temperatures much below that level, can restrict the effectiveness of the lactobacilli. Color fixing and flavor forming staphylococcus and micrococcus (kokuria) are also active during this period of fermentation. One last thought. Never alter the salt content trying to improve the sausage. At 3%, salt permits lactobacilli, pediococci, staphylococci, and micrococci to work well while spoilage and pathogenic bacteria are literally crowded out of the way.
You asked:
Unless you have smoked the sausages to inhibit the growth of mold, at seven weeks, the sausages should be covered with flaky, white, penicillium nagliovense or penicillium chrysogenum under ideal conditions. Molds of other colors or textures must be wiped off with a vinegar and salt mixture on a rag. If the "good" mold hasn`t developed after seven weeks, it is unlikely to do so. This is the reason it is always a good idea to spray them initially with a little Bactoferm™ Mold 600 (Previously M-EK-4). This culture is a single strain, fast-growing, traditional white mold culture containing spores of Penicillium nalgiovense in a convenient freeze-dried form for controlling surface flora. It suppresses the growth of undesirable organisms as indigenous molds, yeasts, and bacteria. Mold-600 is particularly recommended for the production of traditional sausages dried at low temperature and/or low humidity. It has a positive effect on the drying process by preventing the emergence of a dry rim and the mold degrades lactic acid during maturation - resulting in a pH increase, thus a less sour flavor.After seven weeks, is there a chance that cleaning a greasy casing could help?
To answer your question. Yes, it wouldn`t hurt a bit. The reason I say that is if there is slime, get rid of it. If there is evidence of yeasts or colored molds, get rid of them too. In my opinion, you should allow the full time period suggested in the recipe, then cut into one and make an assessment. Allow it to mature. There might not be a thing wrong with the stuff. Let nature do its work and go make some great kielbasa and kabanosy while you wait.
You also asked:
In short, yes it can be related. Air pockets in sausage are an open invitation to bacteria. If this has happened, it is quite possible that some spoilage is occurring. However, don`t give up yet. Allow the myofibrillar proteins actin and myosin (actomyocin) to achieve their purpose (binding available water), up to the isoelectric point - when their water-binding ability ceases (at about 4.9 or 5.0 pH). The drop in pH assists in removing the moisture. How long did your "Charcuterie" recipe tell you to dry the sausage? Let us know what is happening with the sausage and stay in touch.Could the mushiness be related to having introduced too much air during stuffing?
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill!
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charcutebrew
- Beginner
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 19:17
- Location: Michigan
Wow, thanks for such a detailed response!
You reminded me of the phrase "Relax, don't worry. Have a homebrew." I made some smoked venison sausage. Delicious!
The casing feels... right, I guess. But it went in greasy as all get-out. No slime, positive airflow (a fan rigged just so). Fermentation/drying has been reallllll slow the past couple weeks. The recipe said up to about 3 weeks using hog casings, but to ultimately judge by weight loss of 30%... which is good, since my casings are something like twice as big.
I've noticed that the moldier salami has dried better. Makes me wonder why some molds, and others not. Or even just part of one salami, and not other parts. Weird.
You reminded me of the phrase "Relax, don't worry. Have a homebrew." I made some smoked venison sausage. Delicious!
The casing feels... right, I guess. But it went in greasy as all get-out. No slime, positive airflow (a fan rigged just so). Fermentation/drying has been reallllll slow the past couple weeks. The recipe said up to about 3 weeks using hog casings, but to ultimately judge by weight loss of 30%... which is good, since my casings are something like twice as big.
I've noticed that the moldier salami has dried better. Makes me wonder why some molds, and others not. Or even just part of one salami, and not other parts. Weird.
Hey guys
I have to chime in on this one. I have read this topic twice, from top to bottom. When the discussion on Bactoferm comes up (Mold 600 Previously M-EK-4) seems to be the choice. What about Bactoferm LHP? Most fermented dry cured sausage recipes that I have made call for Bactoferm LHP. I have a pepperoni recipe hanging in the fridge for 2 months now (4/7/11) with minimal white mold coverage, and sponge like texture, not hardening all, no smell, greasy texture or spoilage. Hanging next to the pepperoni, I made a 5lb batch of Genoa salami with Bactoferm LHP, and they firmed up nice, but no mold and the finished product checks out good.
On another note, I have to mention, since joining this forum last month, I have picked up several tips from all the posts and suggestions made by all the sausage making buddies! Example, last night I made a batch of Stan`s "hot smoked polish smoked sausage". The point I`m trying to make is, from start to finish, the prep work, grinding, hanging and ready for the smoker, all seemed to go smooth, just by following a few simple rules. And one more thing, grinding cracked pepper versus grocery store ground pepper, wow!
Thanks for the dedication and support.
I have to chime in on this one. I have read this topic twice, from top to bottom. When the discussion on Bactoferm comes up (Mold 600 Previously M-EK-4) seems to be the choice. What about Bactoferm LHP? Most fermented dry cured sausage recipes that I have made call for Bactoferm LHP. I have a pepperoni recipe hanging in the fridge for 2 months now (4/7/11) with minimal white mold coverage, and sponge like texture, not hardening all, no smell, greasy texture or spoilage. Hanging next to the pepperoni, I made a 5lb batch of Genoa salami with Bactoferm LHP, and they firmed up nice, but no mold and the finished product checks out good.
On another note, I have to mention, since joining this forum last month, I have picked up several tips from all the posts and suggestions made by all the sausage making buddies! Example, last night I made a batch of Stan`s "hot smoked polish smoked sausage". The point I`m trying to make is, from start to finish, the prep work, grinding, hanging and ready for the smoker, all seemed to go smooth, just by following a few simple rules. And one more thing, grinding cracked pepper versus grocery store ground pepper, wow!
Thanks for the dedication and support.
I have been studying and considering this business of fermented sausage making and have come to the conclusion that before science determined how and why it all worked making good fermented sausage was very much hit and miss. Some people had determined what the conditions were when it came out really good and tried to duplicate those conditions.
I am still a long way from trying to make any because I have no means of controlling the conditions necessary for proper fermentation and drying.
Summertime is too warm and autumn is still six months away.
I am still a long way from trying to make any because I have no means of controlling the conditions necessary for proper fermentation and drying.
Summertime is too warm and autumn is still six months away.
Ross- tightwad home cook
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charcutebrew
- Beginner
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- Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 19:17
- Location: Michigan
Update on the mushies, & perhaps a few follow-up questions:
I vigorously wiped down the mushy salami with a ~4% vinegar solution on Sunday; one salami in particular feels completely cured on the top half (which was moldy, incidentally), but the bottom half was completely soft (& mold-free), so I just cleaned the lower half.
Wednesday is my weekly weigh-in day for the salami; between Sunday & Wednesday my weight loss doubled compared to entire previous weeks. Not a ton, but 2% loss in 4 days instead of 1% loss in 7 days. The cleaned salami are noticeably firmer.
At this point it seems to me that the greasy casing was indeed the culprit in my salami's snail-paced drying. We'll know for sure in due time!
How does a much slower drying period tend to affect flavor? In other words, does slow drying tend to create a tangier or more mellow salami?
I vigorously wiped down the mushy salami with a ~4% vinegar solution on Sunday; one salami in particular feels completely cured on the top half (which was moldy, incidentally), but the bottom half was completely soft (& mold-free), so I just cleaned the lower half.
Wednesday is my weekly weigh-in day for the salami; between Sunday & Wednesday my weight loss doubled compared to entire previous weeks. Not a ton, but 2% loss in 4 days instead of 1% loss in 7 days. The cleaned salami are noticeably firmer.
At this point it seems to me that the greasy casing was indeed the culprit in my salami's snail-paced drying. We'll know for sure in due time!
How does a much slower drying period tend to affect flavor? In other words, does slow drying tend to create a tangier or more mellow salami?
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Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
