I'm ready and anxious to go. But, if the group consensus demands, I will wait.
I am having trouble getting humidity up, but as Ross explained, perhaps with more than a frozen bottle of water and small pan of salt and water I will be successful.
Dave
Project "A"
After I get my racks in place I am going to hang wet towels from hooks on the racks. I can keep them wet for three days and then either allow them to dry or remove them.
On another note .
Chuckwagon, I am always interested in connections. Making sauerkraut involves the natural fermentation of shredded cabbage with lactic acid producing bacteria. How do you like a connection of cross contamination between the sausage maker's lunch and the the meat he was grinding? Just a little sauerkraut in the sausage mix would add the right bacteria for a start.
On another note .
Chuckwagon, I am always interested in connections. Making sauerkraut involves the natural fermentation of shredded cabbage with lactic acid producing bacteria. How do you like a connection of cross contamination between the sausage maker's lunch and the the meat he was grinding? Just a little sauerkraut in the sausage mix would add the right bacteria for a start.
Ross- tightwad home cook
Hehehe! Maybe if I schmooze the wife Saturday, then when she`s not looking on Sunday, I can make some salami! 
Yes my chamber is ready to go! I just cut a piece of Genoa salami last night made last April. Added some Cabot monetary jack and crackers, yum yum! The Genoa taste fine but I must confess, I did not use Protein lined casing, but will on project A.[/quote]
[/quote]Uwanna already had his curing chamber in place at the beginning of the project. How do you folks feel about getting started with the grinding and stuffing? Check in please
Yes my chamber is ready to go! I just cut a piece of Genoa salami last night made last April. Added some Cabot monetary jack and crackers, yum yum! The Genoa taste fine but I must confess, I did not use Protein lined casing, but will on project A.[/quote]
-
Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Hi Guys,
It sound like we're ready to go. Dave, how much humidity are you able to sustain? Did you put a tray of salt in the bottom and barely cover it with water? It should really make a difference. The more surface area, the higher the humidity will be. It will probably level off at about 75%. To bring it all the way up to 85-90% you may have to hang wet towels or do what I did - use a baby's room plug-in humidifier. I rigged it so it would start n' stop at adjustable levels. Controls for doing this are expensive and I had to mortgage a kid to get them.
The ideal solution is to start at 90% and slowly, over the period of 72 hours, drop the humidity to 85%. This can be a challenge. If you can come close to 85%, you should be ok. Perhaps the wet towels plus the pan of salt water would do the job.
You may wish to hang a few wet towels over a pan of watered salt and test the humidity for a while before we start.
OK gang, we could shoot for Monday on the grinding and stuffing. I'd like to present some questions to you on Saturday or Sunday. Sort of a "self-check up" you can take so you can see if you are understanding the process. I'll give you the answers and you can correct your own quiz. No need to embarass ourselves here eh?
If you flubbed on one or two, we can discuss them with the group. Nobody will have to know how many or which ones you missed - not even me 
Or... we can skip the "check up". It's up to you. Another option is to go ahead and grind & stuff over the weekend, then do the reading n' check up later in the week. Let's make this comfortable for you fellows. My schedule is pretty flexible these days. How about some suggestions for our timetable.
P.S. Hey Uwanna, I've got it
I've got it Hmmm... sometimes I astound myself! I could come over and schmooze your wife while you grind salami 
She'll be sure to go for my great lookin' moustache. It's a babe magnet! I just have to fight off the females even at my age!
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
It sound like we're ready to go. Dave, how much humidity are you able to sustain? Did you put a tray of salt in the bottom and barely cover it with water? It should really make a difference. The more surface area, the higher the humidity will be. It will probably level off at about 75%. To bring it all the way up to 85-90% you may have to hang wet towels or do what I did - use a baby's room plug-in humidifier. I rigged it so it would start n' stop at adjustable levels. Controls for doing this are expensive and I had to mortgage a kid to get them.
The ideal solution is to start at 90% and slowly, over the period of 72 hours, drop the humidity to 85%. This can be a challenge. If you can come close to 85%, you should be ok. Perhaps the wet towels plus the pan of salt water would do the job. You may wish to hang a few wet towels over a pan of watered salt and test the humidity for a while before we start.
OK gang, we could shoot for Monday on the grinding and stuffing. I'd like to present some questions to you on Saturday or Sunday. Sort of a "self-check up" you can take so you can see if you are understanding the process. I'll give you the answers and you can correct your own quiz. No need to embarass ourselves here eh?
If you flubbed on one or two, we can discuss them with the group. Nobody will have to know how many or which ones you missed - not even me Or... we can skip the "check up". It's up to you. Another option is to go ahead and grind & stuff over the weekend, then do the reading n' check up later in the week. Let's make this comfortable for you fellows. My schedule is pretty flexible these days. How about some suggestions for our timetable. P.S. Hey Uwanna, I've got it
I've got it Hmmm... sometimes I astound myself! I could come over and schmooze your wife while you grind salami She'll be sure to go for my great lookin' moustache. It's a babe magnet! I just have to fight off the females even at my age!
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! 
Chuckwagon,
Have another question(s)
So here goes!
1.) What type of salt is to be used in the pan inside the curing Chamber? Can it be just good old Rock Salt that I use to melt the snow off my sidewalk in the Winter or does it need to be a food grade type of salt?
2.) How much is reccommend to start out with. I'm sure it will depend on the area your in and what the relative humidity is but I am looking at a ballpark reccomendation!
3.) Will a ph meter and an Aw meter be needed during this process or are they just luxury items (wish list for future endeavours)?
So far thats all that comes to mind.
Have another question(s)
So here goes!1.) What type of salt is to be used in the pan inside the curing Chamber? Can it be just good old Rock Salt that I use to melt the snow off my sidewalk in the Winter or does it need to be a food grade type of salt?
2.) How much is reccommend to start out with. I'm sure it will depend on the area your in and what the relative humidity is but I am looking at a ballpark reccomendation!
3.) Will a ph meter and an Aw meter be needed during this process or are they just luxury items (wish list for future endeavours)?
So far thats all that comes to mind.
I was only getting to 65%. I noticed as my temp went down, so did the humidity. I will use more salt and less water covering it in a larger pan, together with some towels. I'm hoping that when I line the wood box with Press n Seal that may help with humidity too.Chuckwagon wrote:Hi Guys,
It sound like we're ready to go. Dave, how much humidity are you able to sustain? Did you put a tray of salt in the bottom and barely cover it with water? It should really make a difference. The more surface area, the higher the humidity will be. It will probably level off at about 75%. To bring it all the way up to 85-90% you may have to hang wet towels or do what I did - use a baby's room plug-in humidifier. I rigged it so it would start n' stop at adjustable levels. Controls for doing this are expensive and I had to mortgage a kid to get them.
You may wish to hang a few wet towels over a pan of watered salt and test the humidity for a while before we start.
Um, as much as I would love being home during the week, I gotta workOK gang, we could shoot for Monday on the grinding and stuffing.
I could cut and be ready to grind and stuff Monday night probably. My preference is over the weekend though. Sunday is Father's Day so I get to do what I want -
Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Hi John,
Great questions.
The reason we use salt is to keep the water from developing slimy, nasties that go sour. I used plain ol` table salt before I got a fancy-schmancy, humidity-controlled unit with flashing lights that also washes the dishes, tends the kids, and figures out the income tax! I`m sure good ol` rock salt would be fine as long as it doesn`t contain other snow-melting ingredients. I realize it`s not pure, but after all, it`s not going INTO the sausage in any case. Put about a pound of it on a lipped cookie sheet or you can even put a little more into a shallow plastic 10 x 12" lug. Barely cover the salt with water. At the minimum, this will give you > 70% humidity right off the bat. Add water as needed over the curing period and watch the hygrometer.
The reason we have so much moisture up front during the fermentation phase, is that bacteria just love water. In the meat, ALL bacteria just thrive - the good AND the bad. Without the salt in the recipe, the bad guys would win out. The salt "binds" their available water supply and allows the good guys to receive nourishment and multiply. As we drop the humidity, the meat begins to dry out slowly. When it drops below Aw 0.85, bacteria is no longer a threat and the meat is ready to consume.
Additionally, we add a lactobacilli to produce lactic acid. This is secondary insurance. As the pH drops and the acidity increases, the pathogenic bacteria are no longer able to survive and again...the sausage becomes safe to consume. Think of all the products we eat that are pickled in vinegar. They are safe because of the acidity.
Most home producers do not use the "Pawkit" because it costs about three hundred bucks - last I checked. Most folks gauge the finish by the loss of 30% weight. This is the reason it is important to weigh the salamis just before they go into the curing chamber. This is their "green weight".
To test the pH, many folks use a small strip of cheap litmus testing paper dipped into a mixture of 1 part finely chopped meat with 2 parts distilled water. The color of the paper is matched on a chart telling us how much acidity we have achieved. You can see what they look like at this link near the bottom of the page: http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-ty ... /equipment
However, most people I know, even skip this test and depend wholly upon the 30% weight loss and their taste buds to "pull" the sausage. I like to remind folks that the test of the proper acidity is not in the length of time it has been in the chamber, but the actual measurement of pH in the product. The "Hanna" professional testing kit is also so expensive that most home producers do not purchase one. On the other hand, litmus paper testing strips are available in rolled lengths of 15 feet for $12.99 and a roll of it will last a home-producer a very long time. It`s available through most suppliers in a dispenser with a color chart on its side.
Good goin` John. How does your timetable look? Are you getting ready to grind?
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Great questions.
The reason we use salt is to keep the water from developing slimy, nasties that go sour. I used plain ol` table salt before I got a fancy-schmancy, humidity-controlled unit with flashing lights that also washes the dishes, tends the kids, and figures out the income tax!
I`m sure good ol` rock salt would be fine as long as it doesn`t contain other snow-melting ingredients. I realize it`s not pure, but after all, it`s not going INTO the sausage in any case. Put about a pound of it on a lipped cookie sheet or you can even put a little more into a shallow plastic 10 x 12" lug. Barely cover the salt with water. At the minimum, this will give you > 70% humidity right off the bat. Add water as needed over the curing period and watch the hygrometer.The reason we have so much moisture up front during the fermentation phase, is that bacteria just love water. In the meat, ALL bacteria just thrive - the good AND the bad. Without the salt in the recipe, the bad guys would win out. The salt "binds" their available water supply and allows the good guys to receive nourishment and multiply. As we drop the humidity, the meat begins to dry out slowly. When it drops below Aw 0.85, bacteria is no longer a threat and the meat is ready to consume.
Additionally, we add a lactobacilli to produce lactic acid. This is secondary insurance. As the pH drops and the acidity increases, the pathogenic bacteria are no longer able to survive and again...the sausage becomes safe to consume. Think of all the products we eat that are pickled in vinegar. They are safe because of the acidity.
Most home producers do not use the "Pawkit" because it costs about three hundred bucks - last I checked. Most folks gauge the finish by the loss of 30% weight. This is the reason it is important to weigh the salamis just before they go into the curing chamber. This is their "green weight".
To test the pH, many folks use a small strip of cheap litmus testing paper dipped into a mixture of 1 part finely chopped meat with 2 parts distilled water. The color of the paper is matched on a chart telling us how much acidity we have achieved. You can see what they look like at this link near the bottom of the page: http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-ty ... /equipment
However, most people I know, even skip this test and depend wholly upon the 30% weight loss and their taste buds to "pull" the sausage. I like to remind folks that the test of the proper acidity is not in the length of time it has been in the chamber, but the actual measurement of pH in the product. The "Hanna" professional testing kit is also so expensive that most home producers do not purchase one. On the other hand, litmus paper testing strips are available in rolled lengths of 15 feet for $12.99 and a roll of it will last a home-producer a very long time. It`s available through most suppliers in a dispenser with a color chart on its side.
Good goin` John. How does your timetable look? Are you getting ready to grind?
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill!
-
Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Hi Dave,
You wrote:
I would even paint that wood with epoxy paint when you have a chance after this batch is removed. Then you may wish to use a removable plastic even then, to simply throw awary the mold.
Remember, sometimes, in some recipes of northern Europe and the U.S. etc., mold is not used and smoking deters the formation of bad molds. We MUST avoid any green colored mold if it develops. It can be removed with a little salty vinegar solution on a towel.
Ya know, in America, people prefer smoking as a bad mold deterrent rather than forming a penicillium white mold. In the San Francisco area, for some reason, it is far more popular to develop plenty of white mold on salami.
Should we plan on grinding and stuffing on Sunday then? Sounds like Uwanna could do it then as I will have his wife out to dinner and a picture show!
I believe Ross is ready to go and JBK also. Even if we can't get together on the exact same day, we'll be alright. I would like to have everyone's sausage in the fermentation chamber by about Wednesday or Thursday to keep on a similar drying timetable.
Dave, I believe you're going to have a long July and August, with your drooling tongue hangin' out! ha ha Shucks pard, mark my words, the time will actually shoot by and we'll be tradin' photos all over the place.
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
You wrote:
I thought you had the lining in. Yes, you can bet a dollar against an inside straight that the humidity will climb with the plasic sheet in place. (The bare wood is absorbing water)I'm hoping that when I line the wood box with Press n Seal that may help with humidity too.
I would even paint that wood with epoxy paint when you have a chance after this batch is removed. Then you may wish to use a removable plastic even then, to simply throw awary the mold.
Remember, sometimes, in some recipes of northern Europe and the U.S. etc., mold is not used and smoking deters the formation of bad molds. We MUST avoid any green colored mold if it develops. It can be removed with a little salty vinegar solution on a towel.
Ya know, in America, people prefer smoking as a bad mold deterrent rather than forming a penicillium white mold. In the San Francisco area, for some reason, it is far more popular to develop plenty of white mold on salami.
Should we plan on grinding and stuffing on Sunday then? Sounds like Uwanna could do it then as I will have his wife out to dinner and a picture show!
I believe Ross is ready to go and JBK also. Even if we can't get together on the exact same day, we'll be alright. I would like to have everyone's sausage in the fermentation chamber by about Wednesday or Thursday to keep on a similar drying timetable.
Dave, I believe you're going to have a long July and August, with your drooling tongue hangin' out! ha ha
Shucks pard, mark my words, the time will actually shoot by and we'll be tradin' photos all over the place. Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill!
Chuckwagon
I`m not sure if you could schmooze her any more than I, including with the moustache.
When I`m grinding she tends to find something to amuse herself. My wife reads and writes, book worms are in their own world, in this case lucky for me
On another note: just made 10lbs of venison pepperoni, mixed and in the fridge, ready for the smoker tomorrow. Need to clean the venison out of the freezer !
As for the start date, I will keep in touch over the weekend, to review the notes, and shoot for Sunday evening, or at the latest Monday evening for grinding and mixing.
I`m not sure if you could schmooze her any more than I, including with the moustache.
When I`m grinding she tends to find something to amuse herself. My wife reads and writes, book worms are in their own world, in this case lucky for me On another note: just made 10lbs of venison pepperoni, mixed and in the fridge, ready for the smoker tomorrow. Need to clean the venison out of the freezer !
As for the start date, I will keep in touch over the weekend, to review the notes, and shoot for Sunday evening, or at the latest Monday evening for grinding and mixing.
Hi Chuckwagon,
Sorry I have not responded to your emails although I have been keeping up with the site
as far as doing my reading. I am currently in the process of helping my grandson with some
remodeling on his new house,(removing walls etc). I have previously made a fermenter from a old freezer, I have also built a digital controller to regulate my temperatures. I use
a ultrasonic humidifier and a Green Air for controlling my humidity. I have also built a curing
cabinet from an old refrigerator and have purchased a controller for controlling the temperature. This unit also has a computer fan and a variable voltage supply for controlling air speed. I know I am a bit ahead as far as some of the equipment I have.I
would have enjoyed building a box unit and experimenting with different ways of controlling temperature and humidity but due to these other obligations I just don't have the time to build a unit.
Party Cook
John
[
Sorry I have not responded to your emails although I have been keeping up with the site
as far as doing my reading. I am currently in the process of helping my grandson with some
remodeling on his new house,(removing walls etc). I have previously made a fermenter from a old freezer, I have also built a digital controller to regulate my temperatures. I use
a ultrasonic humidifier and a Green Air for controlling my humidity. I have also built a curing
cabinet from an old refrigerator and have purchased a controller for controlling the temperature. This unit also has a computer fan and a variable voltage supply for controlling air speed. I know I am a bit ahead as far as some of the equipment I have.I
would have enjoyed building a box unit and experimenting with different ways of controlling temperature and humidity but due to these other obligations I just don't have the time to build a unit.
Party Cook
John
[
-
Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Hi Partycook,
You wrote:
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
You wrote:
Good to hear from you. Sounds like you`re pretty busy. It also sounds like you`ve got a real handle on your fermenting and dry-curing chambers. Old refrigerators are terrific for this purpose and I`m sure yours will do just fine. Have you used them quite a bit before, or are you just starting into the fermented type sausages? What are your thoughts about the recipe we`re using and about our time schedule? I think the guys are ready to grind and stuff this weekend and get them into the fermenting chambers they`ve made. Once we do that, we can concentrate a little more on some of the reading and get into some good discussions. Keep in touch John.I have been keeping up with the site as far as doing my reading.
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill!
Chuckwagon
As for the recipe "Salami di Alessanddra" on the optional note is an alternative to the above recipe, can you explain? Do we add what ever seasoning meets our fancy from the optional to the above recipe? Also, the recipe calls for sugar, is this table sugar?
I never had any luck fermenting salami with wine added to the recipe! I believe this may be the reason my last pepperoni batch went south, probably among other things. Like I mentioned in my last post, I made fermented Genoa salami this past April, and with the exception of not using protein lined casing it came out pretty good. I also used simple seasoning like white pepper, salt, and dextrose, but the bactofirm was the LHP, the cure time with 2.5" casing took about 2 months. If I had used the protein casing it would have come out perfect.
I put on my mustache and schmoozed the wife last evening, with a picture show.
As for the recipe "Salami di Alessanddra" on the optional note is an alternative to the above recipe, can you explain? Do we add what ever seasoning meets our fancy from the optional to the above recipe? Also, the recipe calls for sugar, is this table sugar?
I never had any luck fermenting salami with wine added to the recipe! I believe this may be the reason my last pepperoni batch went south, probably among other things. Like I mentioned in my last post, I made fermented Genoa salami this past April, and with the exception of not using protein lined casing it came out pretty good. I also used simple seasoning like white pepper, salt, and dextrose, but the bactofirm was the LHP, the cure time with 2.5" casing took about 2 months. If I had used the protein casing it would have come out perfect.
I put on my mustache and schmoozed the wife last evening, with a picture show.
Hi everyone,
I'm in the process of doing a dry run on my temperatures and humidity levels. I was wondering what you guys would suggest as a final rinse after washing the fermenter/cureing chamber and tools with soap and water.I know some folks that use a diluted bleach solution.I have tried this and it seems to leave a bleach oder, or am I mixing it to strong? I also would like to know if a fan is needed in my fermenting chamber (freezer 22 cu. feet)? I guess I worry about food safety. I had a party last year and a friend brought a dish to pass, 12 people got sick . It took the health department weeks to figure out what the source of the food poisoning was .
John
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I'm in the process of doing a dry run on my temperatures and humidity levels. I was wondering what you guys would suggest as a final rinse after washing the fermenter/cureing chamber and tools with soap and water.I know some folks that use a diluted bleach solution.I have tried this and it seems to leave a bleach oder, or am I mixing it to strong? I also would like to know if a fan is needed in my fermenting chamber (freezer 22 cu. feet)? I guess I worry about food safety. I had a party last year and a friend brought a dish to pass, 12 people got sick . It took the health department weeks to figure out what the source of the food poisoning was .
John
Click On Arrow To View Next Page.............................
Last edited by partycook on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:15, edited 1 time in total.
