I think I screwed up

wilburwb · Post by **wilburwb** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 16:46

Hello Igor, thanks again for all the great information. Yes, you are right! Why didn't I think of that? Never mind saving this for April, just make more!

Hope you don't mind another question but... now obviously my casings stayed permeable enough to enable a 30% loss of moisture but the perimeter of the salami (just under the casing) is much more dense and chewy than the center. Is this normal? Is this a matter of letting it dry longer? Or is there such a thing as "partial case hardening"? Maybe I'm over analyzing.

Have a great day,

Bill

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 22:07

wilburwb wrote:...is there such a thing as "partial case hardening"? Maybe I'm over analyzing.

Bill, you are not overanalyzing at all. Much worse is under-analyzing or not-analyzing because then you won´t learn anything. Not even from your own mistakes.

The reason why you experience a stronger firmness at the perimeter is that the fermentation took place at a slightly faster pace there than in the centre.
And because the pH drop caused the proteins to denature and harden it is now somewhat more difficult for the moisture in the core to migrate out towards the surface.

What happens is that the fermentation which causes the pH to drop below the desired 5,3 (the isoelectric point where the water molecules start letting go of the protein) is often reached more quickly at the perimeter because ambience temperature here is higher than in the core of the salami. Especially if you have processed the meat at the recommended low or close-to-freezing point temperature where the fat is less likely to smear.
If in addition the humidity has been just a little below ideal during the time of fermentation it further increases the risk of a dry rim buildup under the casing. Or perimeter hardening if you prefer. I guess this is the most recurring problem in homemaking-salami.

To prevent this from happening again I recommend that you during fermentation keep a high -and I mean REALLY high (95 - 98%) humidity for as long as the producer of the starter culture recommends on the technical information sheet -and perhaps even prolongs the fermentation time by 20% to 30% to be sure that the core has really hit the below pH 5,3 point.
One may argue that by doing so you prevent the moisture to start evaporating from the moment when it could, but this will eventually happen, just slightly delayed, whereas if you lower humidity too early causing a dry rim buildup then you have invited far worse trouble!

As for pH metering: even if you don´t possess a pH meter you can use the pH strips-method as recommended by a.o. Redzet (Chris), so if you save a lump of sausage mass in a plastic wrapping be sure to take the measure in the core and not close to the surface.

Also I would recommend that you apart from HIGH humidity keep fermentation temperatures on the moderate side if you use the F-RM-52 again.
By that I mean from 68 to max. 75 Fh. As you know, it is a fast culture and if fermentation temperatures get up to and over 80 Fh you´ll have less color formation, less aroma formation and perhaps pronounced risk of rancidity if you want to keep them until April

wilburwb · Post by **wilburwb** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 00:31

Hi Igor, that's a lot of great information. I'm just glad that I understand it

. It actually makes perfect sense to me. I guess being analytical can have its advantages. Hopefully I'll be able to maintain 95-98% humidity in my fermenting chamber. I'm going to try the T-SPX culture in my next endeavour. I believe it ferments at a lower temp (68f?) than the F-RM-52 and for a longer period (72 hours?).
All-in-all, I'm quite happy with the way things turned out. I certainly see where improvements can be made but considering I thought the whole thing was ruined from the outset I'd say it was quite a success!
Thanks again to all of you great folks who provided help and encouragement throughout these past few weeks and especially to you Igor for your wisdom, knowledge, guidance and patience. I appreciate your help more than you know.

Bill

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 02:11

Thank you VERY much Bill for your kind comment - I am happy to know that it was usefull for you!

As regards temperatures for T-SPX (my personal favorite when I worked for Chr.Hansen years ago) it is not a necessity to keep´em low.
With the T-SPX fermentation will still take place as low as 59f but usually the starter culture manifacturers do not advice going below 68f as lower temperatures may increase the risk that certain indigenious bacteria may multiply at a quicker pace that the starter culture itself and contaminate the product. I can tell from my own experiences that this actually may happen...

In fact, the so called "optimal growth temperature" for the acid producing Pediococcus pentosaceuseus in the T-SPX this will be around 100f but by pushing it so high the pH drop will happen so fast that it will seriously shorten the life span of the Staphyloccoccus which is essential for color and taste formation. So in this case the word "optimal" does NOT mean "recommended". My advice: keep it within the 68 to 75f range.

But let´s hear if some of you other guys out there have experiences regarding fermentation temperature that you want to share

alhunter63 · Post by **alhunter63** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 23:24

Igor, I read you worked at Chr. Hansen maybe you would know the answer?? I have some T-SPX that I have used before in the freezer. It says on the package "best used by 4-2014" but most say that its only good for 6-months after you open it?? I bought it on 3-13. Is there any way to test it to make sure its still good??

Angelo

Post by **Bob K** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 13:45

Angelo

You can find the discussion on testing Cultures here http://www.wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopi ... c&start=15

The bottom line is testing a culture is a laboratory matter.

alhunter63 · Post by **alhunter63** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 18:47

Thanks Bob. After reading from the posts it appears the only way to know for sure is with a microscope. Do you guys think I should take a chance or am I better off just buying a new batch of T-SPX??

I thought I read somewhere that if you are nearing the end of the shelf life of the product that you just add more to make up for the ones that might have died off. Can you hurt anything by adding too much T-SPX??

I must say that this is the best site around & I am amazed at the vast knowlege here!!

Post by **Bob K** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 19:18

Angelo

If it was my decision and I Knew the culture was well cared for...I would use it.
You can monitor the Ph and if you have the desired Ph drop you are good ...if not you have another decision to make.

And no you can't use too much culture, it will not harm (anything but your wallet) to overdose the batch.

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:21

Hello Angelo

I would not be afraid to use the 3-13 produced T-SPX providing that they are still sealed and that you kept them at the required 1f without occasional thawing up.

The 6 months storage limit always sounded a bit strange for me.
In other countries (well... at least in Poland) Chr.Hansen gives 18 months for T-SPX and I veeeeery much doubt that there is any technical difference between those packages and the T-SPX sold on the US market. UNLESS the total cell count in the US packages is markedly lower than in the "for-the-European-market" ones -which would means that the bacteria activity may l fall below par at an earlier stage that those with a "max-cell count". OK - this is pure speculation and I don´t want t to fuel any conspiration theories but it is remarkabe that Chr.Hansen usually don´t state the total cell count on their product information sheets.

To the question reg. overdosing the T-SPX: Just like Bob says there will be no negative effects. It will in fact just ensure that the good bacteria dominate even at an earlier stage in the fermentation. And there is no reason to fear that acid production will be twice as strong just because you double up, because during a sound fermentation process the bacteria will multiply anyway. And in the end it is always the amount of added sugars that dictates the end pH.

Post by **Bob K** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 21:43

Igor Duńczyk wrote:In fact, the so called "optimal growth temperature" for the acid producing Pediococcus pentosaceuseus in the T-SPX this will be around 100f but by pushing it so high the pH drop will happen so fast that it will seriously shorten the life span of the Staphyloccoccus which is essential for color and taste formation. So in this case the word "optimal" does NOT mean "recommended". My advice: keep it within the 68 to 75f range.

But let´s hear if some of you other guys out there have experiences regarding fermentation temperature that you want to share

Well this was a mistake but it worked out well. A Genoa using T-SPX and .4% sugar.

Fermenting chamber spiked to 85f over night instead of the 70f it was supposed to be.

Ph dropped to 5.1 in 24 hrs.

After 45 days and a 30% weight loss it is wonderfull!!

Finished fermenting at 65f for 2 more days.

Post by **redzed** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 05:48

Bob, ole' boy, that salami looks purrrfect!

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 08:07

Bob, that's a gorgeous chunk of Genoa. Mamma Mia!

Nice goin'.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 17:58

Bob - I´m sure it tastes at least as good as it looks (and it is the looks of a winner!)

What I wanted to point out in regards of high vs. low temperature is that much of the important taste and colour development caused by the Staphyloccoccus takes place while pH is still on the safe side (above) pH 5.0. Dropping below that figure the Staphyloccoccus will be gradually be knocked down for good...

Now, if the pH of your splendid Genoa did not drop much further after the two final days at 65f then the surviving Staphyloccoccus would eventually continue to do their good work until salt concentration eventually got too high for them (around 12%).

Hence, employing medium high temperatures (and 85f is not very high) in combination with traditional "slow" cultures (OK: T-SPX is not that slow) is not likely to cause any notable side effects in terms of less color/less taste. But generally, the longer time used on the fermentation phase before pH gets below 5.0 the more yummyness you are able to extract as the Staphyloccoccus will work to trigger enzymatic activities in the meat fibres. That is one of the explanations why the taste of long matured salami is so rich.
Adding to that your perfect mold layer with its contributions to the taste... Well ....

More contributions out there ?