Hello all, I have read many books and 2-2.5% salt seems to be the norm for dry cured sausage (salametti). Although many if not most of the recipes I have come across call for 1.5% salt. I deff do not want a overly salty salametti. What is the minimum safe salt percentage in your opinions?
Thank you
Salt amount
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STICKSTRING
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STICKSTRING
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Thank you bob for your response. Here is a recipe from Len Poli. This recipe also calls for a much lower salt content. Can someone explain why this recipe has so much less salt?
http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Salami%20Hot.pdf
Thank you
http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Salami%20Hot.pdf
Thank you
To be honest there are a lot of things "wrong" with that recipe.
Salt content = around 2% salt plus salt in cure #2
I dont think that you can get a 30% loss in moisture in 3-4 weeks in 3" casings...it take me 3-4 months at 85% RH.
Some times it is best to take a taste (spice) profile that you think you will enjoy and use methods that you know work and are safe.
That is indeed a "Hot" recipe depending on the K value of the cayenne and red pepper flakes..I would enjoy that!!
Salt content = around 2% salt plus salt in cure #2
I dont think that you can get a 30% loss in moisture in 3-4 weeks in 3" casings...it take me 3-4 months at 85% RH.
Some times it is best to take a taste (spice) profile that you think you will enjoy and use methods that you know work and are safe.
That is indeed a "Hot" recipe depending on the K value of the cayenne and red pepper flakes..I would enjoy that!!
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STICKSTRING
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- Posts: 106
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 21:01
- Location: USA
)
It depends
Hi all,
I am new here, and I've only been curing sausages for a couple of years now. But I hope you don't mind my 2 cents on the topic.
Initially I struggled with how much salt to use. One the one hand I loved M. Ruhlman's Soppressata recipe in his Charcuterie book which uses, IIRC, 1.7% salt (there was too much criticism online about that). On the other hand authorities on the topic such as Adam Marianski always suggests 3.0% for dry cured sausages. I found 1.7% to taste very nice, while 3% was just too salty for me.
Marianski explains that salt binds water in fresh meat thus lowering water activity from .99 to .96-.98 right off the bat, which inhibits growth of pathogenic bacteria, but from the picture in his book it does not look like a drop to .96-.98 would inhibit growth of most pathogenic bacteria immediately, as most of them grow at aW above .95. Marianski suggests that a compromise needs to be found as to how much salt you need to add, meaning it does not necessarily have to be the 3.0% he uses in his recipes. It's his compromise, probably on the higher level just to be on the safe side.
Interestingly, this extract here did some testing on aW at different salt concentrations at different stages of curing process, see page 82:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 9-0082.pdf
At day 1, aW at 2% salt concentration is higher than that at 2.75%. The rest of the time they not significantly different. Hm... interesting.
Recent batches I made all had 2.5% salt plus salt in Cure #2 - for the total of 2.75% salt content. The resulting sausages tasted fine but I would have liked a tiny bit less salt. I am thinking of dropping to 2.5% total salt content, which will be my personal compromise and where I would not worry too much about compromising food safety.
One other consideration I keep in mind is how long I am planning on curing the sausage. The quicker the sausage is going to cure (thinner diameter), the more salt I will use. This was influenced by the same article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 9-0082.pdf
The idea is, if pork is infected with Trichinella, higher salt content results in quicker deactivation of larvae. Though, nowadays the infection rates are very low:
https://webadmin.pork.org/filelibrary/G ... inella.pdf
I am new here, and I've only been curing sausages for a couple of years now. But I hope you don't mind my 2 cents on the topic.
Initially I struggled with how much salt to use. One the one hand I loved M. Ruhlman's Soppressata recipe in his Charcuterie book which uses, IIRC, 1.7% salt (there was too much criticism online about that). On the other hand authorities on the topic such as Adam Marianski always suggests 3.0% for dry cured sausages. I found 1.7% to taste very nice, while 3% was just too salty for me.
Marianski explains that salt binds water in fresh meat thus lowering water activity from .99 to .96-.98 right off the bat, which inhibits growth of pathogenic bacteria, but from the picture in his book it does not look like a drop to .96-.98 would inhibit growth of most pathogenic bacteria immediately, as most of them grow at aW above .95. Marianski suggests that a compromise needs to be found as to how much salt you need to add, meaning it does not necessarily have to be the 3.0% he uses in his recipes. It's his compromise, probably on the higher level just to be on the safe side.
Interestingly, this extract here did some testing on aW at different salt concentrations at different stages of curing process, see page 82:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 9-0082.pdf
At day 1, aW at 2% salt concentration is higher than that at 2.75%. The rest of the time they not significantly different. Hm... interesting.
Recent batches I made all had 2.5% salt plus salt in Cure #2 - for the total of 2.75% salt content. The resulting sausages tasted fine but I would have liked a tiny bit less salt. I am thinking of dropping to 2.5% total salt content, which will be my personal compromise and where I would not worry too much about compromising food safety.
One other consideration I keep in mind is how long I am planning on curing the sausage. The quicker the sausage is going to cure (thinner diameter), the more salt I will use. This was influenced by the same article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 9-0082.pdf
The idea is, if pork is infected with Trichinella, higher salt content results in quicker deactivation of larvae. Though, nowadays the infection rates are very low:
https://webadmin.pork.org/filelibrary/G ... inella.pdf
Whatever I EQ dry cure now, be it bacon or Coppa or other goodies I use 2%salt and 0.25% cure# 2. With Equilibrium Curing the time frame is not so important.
IFB, we are a bit like you and hate oversalted food.
I find that the above percentages are a happy medium.
For wet curing I am still sold to BIG GUY's salt quantities. Recipe is on this site.
Good Luck,
Jan.
IFB, we are a bit like you and hate oversalted food.
I find that the above percentages are a happy medium.
For wet curing I am still sold to BIG GUY's salt quantities. Recipe is on this site.
Good Luck,
Jan.
IFB-
The total 2.5% of salt and cure will work just fine. If you are following Ruhlmans recipe using the FRM52 culture you have a fast drop in Ph and the safety hurdles are taken care of by the Ph below 5.3.
For trich 2.5% salt is fine as long as drying time exceeds 40 days at a temp greater than 45f.
P.S.
20 grams of FRM52 called for in that recipe is outrageously high for 5lbs of meat, 4 grams would be plenty.
The total 2.5% of salt and cure will work just fine. If you are following Ruhlmans recipe using the FRM52 culture you have a fast drop in Ph and the safety hurdles are taken care of by the Ph below 5.3.
For trich 2.5% salt is fine as long as drying time exceeds 40 days at a temp greater than 45f.
P.S.
20 grams of FRM52 called for in that recipe is outrageously high for 5lbs of meat, 4 grams would be plenty.
Bob,
As a newbie you tend question almost everything. My biggest challenge was/still is significant inconsistencies introduced even by the same author. E.g. Ruhlman offers two soppressata recipes, both use FRM52 fast acting starter culture, yet in one the total salt content is 1.88% http://ruhlman.com/2009/02/soppressata/, while in the other it's 3.2% http://ruhlman.com/2011/10/soppressata-recipe/. It can get quite frustrating.
I see your point w/r to FRM52, but here is where I still struggle. As per Marianski's book, Slamonella will grow until 3.8 pH min, Cl. botulinum - 5.0, Staph. aureus 4.2, Listeria - 4.4, E.coli - 4.4, etc. Pretty much every pathogenic bacteria grows at levels significantly lower than 5.3 pH. Even with the quick drop to 5.3 pH we are not fully stopping growth of pathogens. So, how do we ensure safety?
By the way, here is an interesting study on the effects of pH drop and fermentation/curing/storage temps on viability of certain three pathogens http://www.meathaccp.wisc.edu/validatio ... o%2025.pdf. In a nutshell, regardless of pH drop (they used 5.3 and 4.8 pH) and temps, a certain number of pathogens still survived but the results were inconclusive due to insufficient lethality or variability between trials.
This study here http://www.meathaccp.wisc.edu/validatio ... %20129.pdf points to the fact that it really depends on the pathogen to determine whether pH drop is an effective deterrent. They concluded that aW was a more significant factor in reducing E.Coli, while pH drop was more effective in reducing listeria.
My interpretation of all this, quick pH drop or not, it has to be a combination of things- pH, aW (salt content), and temperature. Meaning, even when using FRM52 I would be hesitant to drop overall salt to 1.88%.
Edited to fix links
As a newbie you tend question almost everything. My biggest challenge was/still is significant inconsistencies introduced even by the same author. E.g. Ruhlman offers two soppressata recipes, both use FRM52 fast acting starter culture, yet in one the total salt content is 1.88% http://ruhlman.com/2009/02/soppressata/, while in the other it's 3.2% http://ruhlman.com/2011/10/soppressata-recipe/. It can get quite frustrating.
I see your point w/r to FRM52, but here is where I still struggle. As per Marianski's book, Slamonella will grow until 3.8 pH min, Cl. botulinum - 5.0, Staph. aureus 4.2, Listeria - 4.4, E.coli - 4.4, etc. Pretty much every pathogenic bacteria grows at levels significantly lower than 5.3 pH. Even with the quick drop to 5.3 pH we are not fully stopping growth of pathogens. So, how do we ensure safety?
By the way, here is an interesting study on the effects of pH drop and fermentation/curing/storage temps on viability of certain three pathogens http://www.meathaccp.wisc.edu/validatio ... o%2025.pdf. In a nutshell, regardless of pH drop (they used 5.3 and 4.8 pH) and temps, a certain number of pathogens still survived but the results were inconclusive due to insufficient lethality or variability between trials.
This study here http://www.meathaccp.wisc.edu/validatio ... %20129.pdf points to the fact that it really depends on the pathogen to determine whether pH drop is an effective deterrent. They concluded that aW was a more significant factor in reducing E.Coli, while pH drop was more effective in reducing listeria.
My interpretation of all this, quick pH drop or not, it has to be a combination of things- pH, aW (salt content), and temperature. Meaning, even when using FRM52 I would be hesitant to drop overall salt to 1.88%.
Edited to fix links
Last edited by IFB on Sun May 17, 2015 13:21, edited 2 times in total.
IFB-
I don't think there is ever a way to completely eliminate the risk of pathogenic bacteria entering what we eat. However we certainly can minimise the risk by following the guidelines of the USDA and other trusted sources. Common sense, a rare commodity these days is also of value.
As a newbie you have certainly done your homework. Be as safe as you can with your methods and enjoy what you make!
I don't think there is ever a way to completely eliminate the risk of pathogenic bacteria entering what we eat. However we certainly can minimise the risk by following the guidelines of the USDA and other trusted sources. Common sense, a rare commodity these days is also of value.
As a newbie you have certainly done your homework. Be as safe as you can with your methods and enjoy what you make!
Truly, a wise man's words.Bob K wrote:IFB-
I don't think there is ever a way to completely eliminate the risk of pathogenic bacteria entering what we eat. However we certainly can minimise the risk by following the guidelines of the USDA and other trusted sources. Common sense, a rare commodity these days is also of value.
As a newbie you have certainly done your homework. Be as safe as you can with your methods and enjoy what you make!
