Soppressata

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redzed
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Post by redzed » Sat Dec 30, 2017 20:10

StefanS wrote:ust got readings of pH in salami baton (not sample) after 17 days in chamber - average 5.24. Used 007 in dose 0.5g/kg. Dextrose - 2 g/kg plus sugar 1.5g/kg. Fermented 62 hours, pH reached 5.12.
Looks like your salami is maturing as it should. The pH will start rising after about 2 weeks in the chamber, and by the time it's finished it will be very close to what it was when you first started.

I'm surprised that it took 62 hours to bring the pH down to 5.13 using 007. I have used that culture numerous times and while I like the fact that it has the bio protective capability, it acidifies too fast for my liking. I made a venison salami and it dropped to 5.13 in 30 hours. I transferred it into the chamber and the next day it was 4.97. Fermentation temp was set at 21 and I added 3g dextrose. Here, I am embarrassed to admit, :oops: I forgot what I read in Gerhard Feiner's book:
Due to its naturally higher glycogen level, meat from horse and deer (venison) acidifies significantly more than the lean muscle tissue of beef and pork.

I should have factored that in and added only 2g dextrose or, better yet, 1g dextrose and 1g sucrose. My oversight is a good example of the importance of not only measuring the starting pH of the meat, but also also taking into consideration other ingredients. For example, paprika contains around 10% sucrose so you have to calculate that into your sugar addition, and conversely, using antimicrobials such as rosemary and garlic might impede fermentation, so if you use large amounts, a sugar adjustment may also be necessary. The addition of ascorbic acid will also lower bring about a rapid increase in acidity.
Bob K wrote:If you are looking for a lower Ph or more tang to the taste you can also up the dextrose and sugar. Personally I like the tang, and have never noticed a significant difference in color or depth or flavor if the Ph dropped below 5. Which goes against all that is written.... :shock:
No necessarily. What you are referring to here is the role of Gram-Positive, Catalase-Positive Cocci, that are found in starter cultures designed for traditional southern European products. In order to impart colour and flavour to the salami the a lower amount of sugar is necessary. But the key here is time, so if you ferment quickly with high sugar amounts and temps over 25, they will be ineffective. But you can still have your cake and eat it too, if you manage your sugar addition, use a combination of dextrose and sucrose (or possibly sucrose only if all the bacteria in the starter can metabolize it), and ferment at a low temp. 007 will ferment at a temp of 16, and you have 72 hours to achieve your goal. That way even if the pH drops eventually to <5.0 the GCC will have done their job. :grin:

This is an excerpt from Rodrigo Tarté, Editor, Ingredients in Meat Products Properties, Functionality and Applications, pp.230-231

For reasons of color stability and flavor development, GCC are frequently used in
sausage starter cultures (Campbell-Platt & Cook, 1995) . They are nonpathogenic,
coagulase-negative staphylococci, and/or kocuriae, such as Staphylococcus carnosus,
Staphylococcus xylosus , and/or Kocuria varians . Their main role is to convert
the curing agent nitrate into nitrite through nitrate reductase activity. Nitrate displays
little technological activity as such, but nitrite actively contributes to food
safety and the development of a stable color through the formation of nitric oxide
myoglobin (Chap. 1) . In addition, GCC produce catalase, which removes the coloraffecting hydrogen peroxide that may be produced by nonstarter LAB.
Flavor development by GCC is mainly ascribed due to their metabolic activities
related to amino acid conversion and fatty acid oxidation (see below). GCC are
inhibited by a rapid pH decrease, which may have negative effects on flavor development. This occurs mainly in fast-ripened sausages that are fermented at high
temperatures (above 25°C) and contain high amounts of fermentable sugar (up to
2%) (Lücke, 1998) . If nitrate rather than nitrite is used as a curing agent, requiring
nitrate reductase activity, the addition of low amounts of sugars (0.2-0.3%) and at
least 10 6 CFU of GCC per gram of sausage is recommended
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Wed Feb 14, 2018 00:59

Ok so here`s a question. According to butcher and packer, red pepper flakes are 40000-45000 scovils. They have a red pepper pulverized very fine powder that they say is 60000. Lets say I used 5 grams of crushed red. Would you use the same 5 grams if you wanted it say 20% hotter? Im confused on the weight being it`s a powder.
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Post by Bob K » Wed Feb 14, 2018 13:28

If you made a batch with 5 grams red and another with 5 grams pulverized the pulverize batch would be 25-30% hotter due to the difference in scovil rating. Volume does not matter go by weight.
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Wed Feb 14, 2018 13:38

That`s exactly whathow I needed to know. I didn`t know if alike measurement is relative, just like 1 fluid ounce of water versus 1 fluid ounce of lead. Obviously, one fluid ounce of lead is a lot heavier, and alike weight of lead would be much less product.
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Post by Kijek » Thu Feb 15, 2018 14:24

5 grams red and another with 5 grams pulverized the pulverize batch would be 25-30% hotter
BobK how do you come up with this stuff?
We're going to have to change your name to the "Professor" :lol:
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Thu Feb 15, 2018 14:29

Well, I made 60 pounds yesterday. Instead of using black peppercorns, I used coarse black pepper and I decided to try the pulverized red pepper @ 60000 scovils. This could be interesting. Hopefully it has a little kick without turning off people.
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Post by Bob K » Thu Feb 15, 2018 14:37

LOUSANTELLO wrote: Instead of using black peppercorns, I used coarse black pepper
Just doing that should make a significant difference in the heat dept.. I have never heard of using whole peppercorn in a fresh sausage!
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Thu Feb 15, 2018 14:45

Whole peppercorn was for the cured soppressata. You`re right, never whole in fresh
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Thu Feb 15, 2018 14:46

I skipped a topic. LOL


Note: Posts merged to the correct thread (I think)
Last edited by LOUSANTELLO on Thu Feb 15, 2018 15:56, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Sun Mar 11, 2018 17:28

I found a place in the Bronx that makes their own soppressata. The shop is called the Calabria Pork Shop. They had a 10 pound minimum to ship, so I ordered 5 pounds of mild and 5 pounds of hot. They came vacuum packed. They dont look like they use any netting. They were all perfectly flattened to about 1" high and they must be using a latger casing because they were about 3" wide. There`s one thing I noticed. If you scratch your fingernail across them, it looks like there`s a thin layer of something almost like a soft wax. I assume this keeps the mold off and also keeps them moist being they are normally hung in the store. Any clues what it may be. By the way, it was the closest to homemade I`ve had.
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Post by Kijek » Mon Mar 12, 2018 03:34

Hey Lou that place in the Bronx is only about 30minutes from me and I have been there before.
I'm going to check out this soppressata you got and ask a question or two about the wax stuff.

The street that they are on in the Bronx is famous and has many Italian shops.

From what I know of you, your products are most likely better, as they mass produce, you do it because you want to do it.

I'll send an up date after I go down, maybe in a week or so.
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Post by Bob K » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:50

They must use some kind of a mold/form to press and ferment in. From the pic of the varios salamis and meats hanging in Their shop...non seem to have mold.

https://newyork.seriouseats.com/2012/09 ... ssata.html

https://newyork.seriouseats.com/2013/05 ... store.html
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Post by Kijek » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:59

I'm really hoping next week I can take a quick drive down to Arthur Ave. If I go, I'll give you guys a heads up and you can feed me a couple of questions that you want me to ask them.
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Post by Bob K » Mon Mar 12, 2018 13:11

Do they use a form for the Sopp?
How do they prevent mold from growing?
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Mon Mar 12, 2018 13:53

When I ordered from them, they wanted to know if I wanted flat or round. In the flat, they offered a mild and hot. In the round, they offered a mild hot and extra hot. Being all the pics I`ve seen of the store, alot of people with short sleeves on, so I`m assuming they are hanging these elsewhere for curing. I`m thing once that are done curing, they are somehow cleaning them and sealing them with something. There wasn`t one trace of white on them when I received them. My uncle used to drop them into jars with oil after they were cured. They used to use the big bottle with the rubber spring cap. They could stuff 15-20 in one bottle. When they wanted one, they would grab one and wipe it down with a paper towel.
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