Types of culture

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jjnurk
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Types of culture

Post by jjnurk » Tue Sep 15, 2020 19:33

I'm wanting to make a German style salami, ferment for a couple days to get the tanginess, smoke then dry. I was going to use bactoferm LHP DRY, however I need to purchase a large quantity for lots of $$$. So I was looking at other options however I don't really know anything about this. I read the manual Bactoferm Meats manual Vol. 1 and came up with either a SM-194 or CS-299. If someone can shed some light which direction I should proceed or even suppliers, that'll be great!
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Re: Types of culture

Post by redzed » Wed Sep 16, 2020 16:21

German and Scandinavian salami is usually fermented (or soured using other methods), smoked to a cooked temp and then semi dried. Is that what you plan to do? If so, you can use just about any culture, where you will utilize only the fermentative bacteria and not the gram positive bacteria. Ferment at 30C, adding 6-8g of sugar per kg. That will bring the pH down to 4.8 or less and you will have a distinct tang. You can do that in a cost effective way by using Mondostart 2, from Halford's, DnR or Stuffers. Another option that is sure to work is yogourt with live cultures.
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Re: Types of culture

Post by jjnurk » Thu Sep 17, 2020 13:41

Thanks Chris. My plan is to experiment with Thüringer. Calls for the LHP but if you say that the mondostart will have the same effect then that's what I'll try. I did find it but only in Stuffers.
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Re: Types of culture

Post by so_not_rad » Fri Oct 02, 2020 09:14

jjnurk wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 13:41
Thanks Chris. My plan is to experiment with Thüringer. Calls for the LHP but if you say that the mondostart will have the same effect then that's what I'll try. I did find it but only in Stuffers.
Where is it that you live? I usually used to order all my cultures from Amazon, since they carry the Chr. Hansen brand and you can buy individual packets
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Re: Types of culture

Post by redzed » Sun Oct 04, 2020 00:42

We live in Canada. Chr. Hansen cultures are available here but very expensive and only one retailer that I am aware of peddles them. We do, however have other options. The Bactoferm line is only one of many out there and because several publications specify them in recipes, many incorrectly assume that they have to use them.
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Re: Types of culture

Post by kjcleek » Sat Oct 17, 2020 21:19

I don't know what distributor you are referring to in Canada. I recently discovered Fromagex.com, which carries a number of Chr. Hansen cultures at prices comparable to USA pricing. They have a warehouse in California that I may be using for pickup of orders. Fromagex has been very responsive. I'm considering trying CS-299 for whole muscles such as coppa, loin and bresaola, as it is pure S. carnosus. Any thoughts?
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Re: Types of culture

Post by redzed » Tue Oct 20, 2020 07:02

Hey Kevin, glad to have you visit us. The Bactoferm retailer I mentioned in the above post is Testek Instruments in Quebec. They currently carry Bactoferm cultures as in this link: https://testek.ca/en/categorie-produit/ ... ltures-en/

Thanks for the referral of Fromagex. I will be adding them to the list of Canadian sources. I learned that they also sell Bactoferm products, although somewhat limited and some only in larger quantities. These are the cultures they carry in their Quebec location:

Bactoferm® SM-194 25g
Bactoferm® Rosellac 266 250g
SafePro® F-LC 25g
Bactoferm® CS-299 25g
SafePro® B-LC-007 US 50g (Box of 25 packets)
Bactoferm® MOLD-600 25g (Box of 50 packets)
Once you register on their site you will be able to see their prices, or you can PM me. Flat rate for shipping is $20.

As to your question about CS-299, I have never worked with it but maybe one of these days I'll give it a shot. It looks like like it is a replacement for Bactoferm C-P-77 which also contained S. Carnosus only. Unfortunately I have been unable to get a spec sheet for C-P-77 to see how it might have compared with CS-299. Bactoferm also makes another product designed for whole muscle products, B-LC-78, sold by the Sausagemaker. It contains Pediococcus acidilactici and S. Carnosus. At first it may sound confusing since the P. acidilactici is a fermentative bacteria, but it's main purpose in this culture is to protect the meat from listeria. It's not expensive, will perform the same function as CS-299 and will provide added protection, so it might be a good idea to have a look at it before ordering the 299. I think I have a spec sheet for it somewhere and can email it to you. A little while ago I went through a couple of packets of Texel DCM-1. This culture also does not contain any fermentative bacteria but has S. Carnosus and S. Vitulinus. To be honest, I really could not tell the difference between the whole muscle products that were inoculated with it and those that were not. Where it did work well was on some of the smaller calibre dried sausages like a saucisson sec and fuet where I wanted only a mild natural fermentation.
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Re: Types of culture

Post by kjcleek » Tue Oct 20, 2020 18:34

Wow! Thanks for the quick response. I've been collecting my information resources on various cultures and the bacterial composition of them. I plan on doing an experiment on a whole muscle cure soon, using just S. carnosus, and comparing it to 1) salt alone, 2) salt + cure #2, 3) salt + cure #2 + carnosus and 4) salt + reduced amount of cure #2 + carnosus. Pork loin was on sale recently for $1.00/pound, so it will be an affordable excursion into the unknown. I want to avoid any acidifying bacteria to keep any non-carnosus fermentation restricted to what already exists on the meat so that results can be compared to the salt-only and salt + cure #2 controls.
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Re: Types of culture

Post by redzed » Thu Oct 22, 2020 05:53

I doubt if any fermentation would actually occur if you applied the culture B-LC-78 only to the surface. But please post the results of your experiments here. It will help others in deciding whether to use surface cultures or not. The jury is still out on this practice, :D
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Re: Types of culture

Post by kjcleek » Mon Feb 01, 2021 21:55

I have completed my experiment using Chr. Hansen's CS-299 culture, a pure S. carnosus strain. It did seem to develop color a bit more quickly than just salt, and salt + Cure #2, but as time wore on in the drying period, the color difference became undetectable, at least to my old eyes. After drying to about 35% moisture loss, the flavor and color were similar for all samples. I'm not sure what you mean by "surface" inoculation, as with a whole muscle, I'm not sure what else I could do. Sample #1, 2.5% salt; Sample #2, 2.25% salt + 0.25% Cure #2; Sample #3, 2.25% salt, 0.25% Cure #2, CS-299 0.25%; Sample #4, salt, 2.375%, Cure #2, 0.125%, CS-299, 0.25%. (I used a lot of culture because of small sample weights, ~550g, and short maturing time.) I can't figure out how to post my photos to this group, so you'll have to use your imaginations.
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Re: Types of culture

Post by redzed » Wed Feb 03, 2021 17:51

kjcleek wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 21:55
I'm not sure what you mean by "surface" inoculation, as with a whole muscle, I'm not sure what else I could do

I was referring here only to B-LC-78, which contains lactic and staph bacteria, yet is recommended for whole muscle cuts. In commercial applications the bacteria is injected into the meat and tumbled.
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