Help diagnose what went wrong?

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rgreenberg2000
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Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by rgreenberg2000 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 22:22

I'm a noob at this dry curing thing, so would love to get your thoughts on what went wrong with my Chorizo Asturiano. I followed the recipe as printed on the meatsandsausages.com site through the fermentation and drying steps. Three days ago, I hit 40% weight loss, but still had some softness to the ring of chorizo which I attributed to uneven drying (in the ring shape.) I hung the chorizo back up, and today took another taste. It's still soft, though I don't think I have case hardening per the pics that I've got.

Since I now have a pH meter (Apera PH60-S), I used it (calibrated) to measure the pH of the chorizo today......and it was 7.1. I know this is not good, and that this batch is a loss. What I'm wondering is what you think may be the possible cause(s) of this result so that I can look at my process in future batches to make some improvement. I'm a bit bummed out, but I did have relatively low expectations on my first time out with a dry cured sausage.... :(

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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by rgreenberg2000 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 17:04

Just checking in to see if anyone has some thoughts on this one, and where I might focus on the process for mistakes/improvement based on the result. I still think the 7.0 pH reading I got was crazy, but I calibrated the meter three times just to be sure (and measured in four spots.) Since I'll never know my pH readings before fermentation and after, this will be a bit of a mystery, but my guess is the issue lies there somewhere? My newbie brain is thinking that I didn't get the pH drop in fermentation that I should, so things went sideways after that.

Would love some input if y'all have any!

I put a fennel salami into the curing chamber this week, so I'm back in the saddle. pH on those were 5.85 pre-fermentation, 5.15 post-fermentation, and they look good (no mold after 5 days, but I didn't inoculate them, so they will need to borrow from their neighbors.)

Thanks!

Rich
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by Albertaed » Sun Jan 03, 2021 01:46

To get a clear picture did you take notes of your quantities, temps times during each phase?

Someone more experienced can chime in but 7.0 sounds like fresh raw pork.
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by rgreenberg2000 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 03:23

Albertaed wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 01:46
To get a clear picture did you take notes of your quantities, temps times during each phase?

Someone more experienced can chime in but 7.0 sounds like fresh raw pork.
I followed this recipe to the tee (https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausag ... -asturiano) minus the smoke. Nailed all the times, temps and RH targets. Stuffed into 32mm hog casings, hung in two rings, and it took 22 days in the curing chamber to reach 40% weight loss. No culture (recipe didn't call for one.)

I think raw pork should be around 5.8 for pH, so I don't know what the heck would get me to 7, unless there was something really wrong going on. As I mentioned, I did calibrate my meter three times, because I didn't believe the reading I was getting. It calibrated perfectly in the 7.0 and 4.0 solutions as per the instructions.

I'm a bit at a loss, but on the other hand, what I know about fermenting sausages could fit in a thimble (or maybe a shot glass.) ;)

Rich
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by Albertaed » Sun Jan 03, 2021 13:57

I believe this is a semi dry sausage. I think it’s good to go. From what I can read you can eat it as is or fry it up. Semi dry just doesn’t have the same shelf life. I made a Mettwurst which was along the same lines for method and it is actually spreadable and delicious! Any recipe can made in fresh through to air dry depending on methods.

https://www.benidormseriously.com/all-about-s

Same recipe also by the same people as a dry sausage:

https://imgur.com/a/VnlTZgG


I still don’t get the ph though.
Again that’s one newbie to another 🤷‍♂️Feed it to your boss first see what happens. 8)
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by Bob K » Sun Jan 03, 2021 16:03

As you stated without knowing the starting Ph its hard to even guess. Personally if if it looks and smells good I would not throw it out.
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by rgreenberg2000 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 16:46

Ed, this is definitely a dry sausage (at least with this recipe/method.) It's not cooked at all, which I think most semi-dry ones are....

Bob, it looked good, it smelled.....odd? I could not get past the somewhat squishy mouthfeel, even with the piece I re-hung that got much firmer. The mouthfeel was still off-putting.

I opted for safety first (and am not sure I would have eaten it anyway), and tossed it. Oddly, since I have done that, there is WAY less of that unwashed gym locker smell going on in my chamber.....coincidence? :)

Thanks for thinking about it with me!

R
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by redzed » Sun Jan 03, 2021 17:16

A pH of 7 after the drying phase is very unusual. However, in normal circustances the pH does rise as the sausage ripens, and unless it went way below 5 after fermentation, it can have the same reading as the fresh meat when drying is complete. Last year Stefan reported that some of his salami had pH readings over 6. Why your chorizo remained soft and crumbly can be attributed to a number of causes: Inadequate amount of salt, undermixing, warm temps when grinding and stuffing, loose stuffing, failed fermentation, bacterial contamination, PSE meat, and presence of antibiotics. It happens to all of us time to time, and if you don't use a starter, and test the pH of the fresh meat it can be a hit and miss with the final result.
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by redzed » Sun Jan 03, 2021 17:28

Take a look at the trouble shooting guide in the Chr. Hansen Meat Manual Vol. 1. It's located at the end of the booklet.
https://hjemmeriet.com/da/ChrHansen/Bro ... ual_UK.pdf
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by StefanS » Sun Jan 03, 2021 18:03

IMHO - i do not know your whole process of making that chorizo but by your description and pictures can think about couple reasons.
Firstly - case hardening - my explanation below.
Secondly - fat smearing - possible but I can not say it for sure because do not know meat/fat temperatures during process.(also if you used a fat with high level of unsaturated fatty acids that can be problem too).
Thirdly - you do not use any bacterial starter (following recipe from different part of world without knowing own environmental isn't good idea).
Probably during initial stage of fermentation and drying you used too low Right Humidity level for small diameter of casing. It gives fast drying on outer diameter of salami. It prevent moisture from core move and evaporate in sufficient rate. Trapped moisture help proteolytic enzymes work in high speed so they produce alkaline byproducts - that the reason you have pH above 7.0. Also it prevent reactions of produce lactic acid by fermenting sugars ( you added 3.0 g plus sugars in pimenton (~2.5 g/kg).Also you didn't add any starter so initial count of LAB is also suspicious). Later drying obliterated most of differences between outer and inner core. But your "squishy mouthfeel" still.
It is what I can think about your chorizo.
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by rgreenberg2000 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 18:18

StefanS wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 18:03
IMHO - i do not know your whole process of making that chorizo but by your description and pictures can think about couple reasons.
Firstly - case hardening - my explanation below.
Secondly - fat smearing - possible but I can not say it for sure because do not know meat/fat temperatures during process.(also if you used a fat with high level of unsaturated fatty acids that can be problem too).
Thirdly - you do not use any bacterial starter (following recipe from different part of world without knowing own environmental isn't good idea).
Probably during initial stage of fermentation and drying you used too low Right Humidity level for small diameter of casing. It gives fast drying on outer diameter of salami. It prevent moisture from core move and evaporate in sufficient rate. Trapped moisture help proteolytic enzymes work in high speed so they produce alkaline byproducts - that the reason you have pH above 7.0. Also it prevent reactions of produce lactic acid by fermenting sugars ( you added 3.0 g plus sugars in pimenton (~2.5 g/kg).Also you didn't add any starter so initial count of LAB is also suspicious). Later drying obliterated most of differences between outer and inner core. But your "squishy mouthfeel" still.
It is what I can think about your chorizo.
Stefan, thanks for the thoughts on this one, I very much appreciate it! A few details....

Fat and meat were kept VERY cold during processing. After cutting into grinder sized strips, they went in the freezer for about an hour. I ground the fat first through the 7mm plate, then immediately put it back in the freezer. The meat was then ground, and also back in the freezer. The fat was a mix of fat cap from the pork butt, and some belly fat that I had from bacon trim. QUESTION: Do you think that this type of fat was an issue? During mixing and stuffing, the fat remained very distinct, so I believed that I did a good job of avoiding smearing.

I did not use a starter, as one was not called for in the recipe, so I tried to follow it verbatim. During the fermentation step, I had two thermometers that agreed on temp, though was only using one humidity sensor, so there is a possibility that sensor is not accurate at all. I will test that today. My fermentation temps were 80-82F, and RH rose very quickly to 85-90% and stayed there during the fermentation time. I only deviated from the recipe in the fermentation step by skipping the addition of smoke.

I only have the one humidity sensor in my curing chamber, which is controlled (and sensed) by an Inkbird controller. I had checked that sensor for accuracy some time ago, but not recently. I will add that to my to-do list as well to make sure that I don't have an issue with false RH readings in the chamber, too.

I'm certain that I messed up something in the process, and I won't skip a culture again, regardless of recipe, so that I won't have to worry about having the right microbiology for the fermentation step. On my Finochionna that I just started, I used T-SPX, and the pH readings progressed well to just under 5.2 in 36 hours, so I feel good about those.

Again, I appreciate your thoughts on what might have gone wrong. That pH reading of 7 definitely tells me that unexpected microbiological processes were at work.

Rich
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by StefanS » Sun Jan 03, 2021 23:52

rgreenberg2000 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 18:18
QUESTION: Do you think that this type of fat was an issue? During mixing and stuffing, the fat remained very distinct, so I believed that I did a good job of avoiding smearing.
Fat smearing it is letting soft (semiliquid state) fat cover particles of lean meat. It can happen in two points - when you overheat meat mince during process or when you will have fat with high level of unsaturated fatty acids You can control first reason but you can not control second one. High level of unsaturated fatty acids depend on diet of pigs.(example - corn diet is basic reason of that situation). Commercial manufactures are using a bowl cutter for process frozen fat. We do not have mostly that option and grinding fat thru grinding plates. They are physically destroying fat structure (even frozen) so we can have that problem (usually 10-12 days after filling process that problem start to be visible). Salami start to be mushy, mold start to "disappear". Pigs fed on grain diet do not showing that. In my own processing very often im not grinding fat just cutting by knife iin small squares/cubes. Fat from ham or butt cup isn't bad. Best is "hard" back fat. avoid soft and very soft fat like groin fat, or soft belly fat (part with nipples').
I have mention it like one of reasons that can lead to that situation you got. It is just my guessing, and i presented what I'm thinking.
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by Indaswamp » Mon Jan 04, 2021 05:39

You can have the fat too cold for grinding. If it is hard solid, that is not good as the auger compresses the fat chunk against the plate and will smear it. Learned that on my last batch of pepperoni...
I now temp check multiple chunks prior to grinding and when it gets just above freezing, 32.5-34*F, Then I grind the fat first, then the lean...
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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by Indaswamp » Mon Jan 04, 2021 05:42

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Re: Help diagnose what went wrong?

Post by rgreenberg2000 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 05:52

Indaswamp wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 05:42
To check your humidity sensor:
https://www.thesprucepets.com/how-to-ca ... er-1239116
Thanks. That's how I've always done it before......just haven't tested it in about a year. :)

R
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