New question - different subject. I have had a ham bone hanging in my basement for 4 months hoping to end up with proscuitto. I followed Rulmans instructions but have learned recently that he seems to leave out a lot of information in his book.
I have the ham bone hanging in cheese cloth. I keep checking it by smell to make sure it doesn't smell bad and it doesn't seem to. I want to take it down and see the finish product but not sure what to look for when I do. Any suggestions?
Rand
But Grandpa Didn't Use Nitrates And Cultures...
Well, first of all there just ain't very much meat left on any ham bones that I put away. But other than that tell us what you did that that poor piggy before you hung it up. Salt? cure? #1? #2? How are you keeping the flies off it? Where is it hanging ? tell us about the air circulation, air temperature, releative humidity.
Your question is almost as hard to answer as the question, how long is a piece of rope.
Your question is almost as hard to answer as the question, how long is a piece of rope.
Ross- tightwad home cook
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Chuckwagon
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- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Ross wrote:
Ruhlman is an expert alright. He is indeed an expert CHEF! On the other hand, Stan MARIANSKI is probably the world's foremost authority on Charcuterie... (Meats and sausages). The man LIVED through his education period - experiencing sausage making first hand! Behind the Iron Curtain - where the rules of sausage-making were strictly enforced by the government in control at that time.
If my opinion means anything at all to you... then read Stan Marianski's books. They are worth every single cent you will spend on them. If you REALLY wish to become savvy and know what sausage - making is all about, then go to Bookmagic.com and order all of his books. Again, I am not paid nor affilliated with Bookmagic and do not recieve compensation for my endorsement of its products. I simply know the best when I see it!
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Yup, I don't know any other way to say this: (sorry if I offend anyone)...Your question is almost as hard to answer as the question, how long is a piece of rope.
Ruhlman is an expert alright. He is indeed an expert CHEF! On the other hand, Stan MARIANSKI is probably the world's foremost authority on Charcuterie... (Meats and sausages). The man LIVED through his education period - experiencing sausage making first hand! Behind the Iron Curtain - where the rules of sausage-making were strictly enforced by the government in control at that time.
If my opinion means anything at all to you... then read Stan Marianski's books. They are worth every single cent you will spend on them. If you REALLY wish to become savvy and know what sausage - making is all about, then go to Bookmagic.com and order all of his books. Again, I am not paid nor affilliated with Bookmagic and do not recieve compensation for my endorsement of its products. I simply know the best when I see it!
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! 
Ham bone
I packed the ham bone in kosher salt for two weeks while draining the liquid evevy other day. I then washed off the salt and rubbed some cracked pepper on it and wrapped it in cheese cloth. It has been hanging in my basement with temp of 65 degrees and humudity of around 70 -80 percent.
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Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Rand, Was this your recipe or someone else's?
Now please... DO NOT take this the wrong way. If a person wishes to produce a dry-cured product, he will have to study. He will... at the very LEAST, have to read through the material provided by the moderators of this site. A person can NOT make his own rules in such an exacting science as this charcuterie business. To develop a truly perfected sausage using "dry cure", one must be completely familiar with the background and science of the thing! NOT the rules of somebody who "thinks" he understands the principles, but the RULES of one who has tested the recipes and UNDERSTANDS how to instruct others in the process. This takes a very special type person indeed. Not a "chef". But a "sausage maker". In my OPINION, these persons are the authors of this very site.
My Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Now please... DO NOT take this the wrong way. If a person wishes to produce a dry-cured product, he will have to study. He will... at the very LEAST, have to read through the material provided by the moderators of this site. A person can NOT make his own rules in such an exacting science as this charcuterie business. To develop a truly perfected sausage using "dry cure", one must be completely familiar with the background and science of the thing! NOT the rules of somebody who "thinks" he understands the principles, but the RULES of one who has tested the recipes and UNDERSTANDS how to instruct others in the process. This takes a very special type person indeed. Not a "chef". But a "sausage maker". In my OPINION, these persons are the authors of this very site.
My Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill!
At some level we must make certain that we are not being cavalier about the meat we use for making food. Remember that when we have bacon and eggs, for the chicken it was just a small contribution but for the pig it was a complete sacrifice.
I have no qualms about killing and eating meat but I am deeply offended when I hear of people wasting meat that was supposed to be food. The worst kinds of waste come from people seeking an easy answer to a complex method and refusing to invest the time and effort needed to learn the skills.
Before I found this site I read all I could find on Len Poli's site then I did searches for other sausage makers and read their methods and recipes. I compared technique used by different sausage makers and meat smokers. At this point I am just begining to understand how very little I really know about sausage making.
I don't know for certain how tight to stuff a casing.
What are the reasons for a certain size casing for a particular kind of sausage. Why are hotdogs the size they are and brats twice as big? could they both be the same size? would they taste the same?
I have no qualms about killing and eating meat but I am deeply offended when I hear of people wasting meat that was supposed to be food. The worst kinds of waste come from people seeking an easy answer to a complex method and refusing to invest the time and effort needed to learn the skills.
Before I found this site I read all I could find on Len Poli's site then I did searches for other sausage makers and read their methods and recipes. I compared technique used by different sausage makers and meat smokers. At this point I am just begining to understand how very little I really know about sausage making.
I don't know for certain how tight to stuff a casing.
What are the reasons for a certain size casing for a particular kind of sausage. Why are hotdogs the size they are and brats twice as big? could they both be the same size? would they taste the same?
Ross- tightwad home cook
Ham bone
I was asking for help and I do not appreciate being talked down too!
Rand I am not talking down to you or anyone. I am expressing myself and my thoughts concerning the value of food and learning.
I bake bread and have for more than 50 years. People ask me for a recipe and I tell them the recipe and then I find that they don't know how to make bread. Many times people don't have enough knowledge of a subject to be able to ask questions.
If you want to learn to be a wood worker you don't start out by building a walnut dining room table. You start by building birdhouses and step stools for children.
Good lumber is very costly and good meat is also very costly and unlike lumber it doesn't grow on trees it comes for real live animals. The first piece of meat that I cured and smoked was a whole turkey leg.
I have been very pleased with my progress. The turkey leg came from a $1.19 per pound fresh turkey. I can't afford to use expensive lumber to learn with and I can't afford to use expensive meat to learn with.
My unsolicited advise to you is to read and study this skill, art, craft and science. The books Chuckwagon has recommended are a true treasure trove but also brush up on your math and biology knowledge.
I bake bread and have for more than 50 years. People ask me for a recipe and I tell them the recipe and then I find that they don't know how to make bread. Many times people don't have enough knowledge of a subject to be able to ask questions.
If you want to learn to be a wood worker you don't start out by building a walnut dining room table. You start by building birdhouses and step stools for children.
Good lumber is very costly and good meat is also very costly and unlike lumber it doesn't grow on trees it comes for real live animals. The first piece of meat that I cured and smoked was a whole turkey leg.
I have been very pleased with my progress. The turkey leg came from a $1.19 per pound fresh turkey. I can't afford to use expensive lumber to learn with and I can't afford to use expensive meat to learn with.
My unsolicited advise to you is to read and study this skill, art, craft and science. The books Chuckwagon has recommended are a true treasure trove but also brush up on your math and biology knowledge.
Ross- tightwad home cook
Ham bone
Thanks for the clarification. We all have to start somewhere and we all make mistakes along the way. I am a certified culinarian and don't like wasting good food and valuable time either. I was told Rulmans book was solid and started using it but now I know to throw it in the trash. By the way I am a bread maker and good to know you are too.
Your buddy Rand
Your buddy Rand
rolls
Nice rolls, very creative. I am sending a picture of my recent attempt on making pepperoni following chuckwagons instructions. They are in the drying stage. Let me know if the pictures come thru. I tried to send a picture but I do not know how to get it down loaded. Any suggestions?
Rand
Rand
My late mother-in-law was an excellant cook, when she had a recipe. But without a recipe she was at a complete loss because she did not know the science of cooking. She did not know why cooking a potato made it more digestable but she knew that it would taste better. Sometimes we have to know enough about our subject to know why we try for consistant shapes and sizes when we make sausage. We could stuff sausage in mama's panty hose and make it work if we knew enough about what we were doing. But we don't know that much so we limit the number of variables and hope that the rest of the process will work.
Ross- tightwad home cook
When I rebuilt a sailboat 21 years ago I read many books and I found a few that were written by men that owned boat yards and built and rebuilt boats for a living and happened to think that their experience and knowledge was valuable enough that others could benefit from it. I found many books written by men who write books and happen to also have an interest in boats among many other things.
When you find an author that has a dozen of more books in print you must conclude that he/she is a writer with a side line interest in the subject of his books.
The books written by the Marianskis are their efforts to make sausage making a living craft,art and science and not let the weath of knowledge be lost to history.
When the European settlers came to the americas the people living here had a very sophisticated way of life that the new comers didn't value. The result was most of the knowledge held by the people here was lost when the plagues ravaged the tribes.
If a few very dedicated men and women had not taken the trouble to save the manuals and requirements for sausage making we would all be making sausage with much more than meat, salt, cure and spice.
I encounter women today that will buy boneless, skinless chicken breasts for 4 dollars a pound when whole chicken is for sale right beside it for 69 cents a pound. This is because they don't know how to cut up a chicken.
They are selling frozen mashed potatoes that you can take home and microwave. You can peel raw potatoes and boil them in the same time it takes to microwave the package and you can buy 5 pounds for the price of a pound and a half of the frozen stuff.
I have a young friend that had to learn after she left home that those brown round things at the produce section were real potatoes and all you had to do was wash them and cook them.
Take time to learn and also take time to teach others.
When you find an author that has a dozen of more books in print you must conclude that he/she is a writer with a side line interest in the subject of his books.
The books written by the Marianskis are their efforts to make sausage making a living craft,art and science and not let the weath of knowledge be lost to history.
When the European settlers came to the americas the people living here had a very sophisticated way of life that the new comers didn't value. The result was most of the knowledge held by the people here was lost when the plagues ravaged the tribes.
If a few very dedicated men and women had not taken the trouble to save the manuals and requirements for sausage making we would all be making sausage with much more than meat, salt, cure and spice.
I encounter women today that will buy boneless, skinless chicken breasts for 4 dollars a pound when whole chicken is for sale right beside it for 69 cents a pound. This is because they don't know how to cut up a chicken.
They are selling frozen mashed potatoes that you can take home and microwave. You can peel raw potatoes and boil them in the same time it takes to microwave the package and you can buy 5 pounds for the price of a pound and a half of the frozen stuff.
I have a young friend that had to learn after she left home that those brown round things at the produce section were real potatoes and all you had to do was wash them and cook them.
Take time to learn and also take time to teach others.
Ross- tightwad home cook
Well said I think you have hit the nail on the head. I think if there is a serious catastrophe a lot of people would starve and freeze to death because they have no clue as to how to fend for themselves.What we are striving for is to preserve an art form which has been passed down for hundreds of years, with the help of the Marianskis and other people like them on the planet we are able to do that.The majority of products turned out these days are nothing but a disgrace to the animal that has been sacrificed to make that product, would our forefathers have done the same when they slaughtered their livestock?
The amount of culture and knowledge that has been lost all over the world in the persuit of religion is incomprehendable, it is little wonder that people are returning to nature based spiritually instead of something that only revolves around money and unaccountability.
The amount of culture and knowledge that has been lost all over the world in the persuit of religion is incomprehendable, it is little wonder that people are returning to nature based spiritually instead of something that only revolves around money and unaccountability.
