I now have a bowl cutter - what do I do with it!

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reddal
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I now have a bowl cutter - what do I do with it!

Post by reddal » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:04

Hi,

I've bought a bowl cutter. I'm hoping to use it instead of a grinder to improve the texture of Chorizo. Any tips on how to use it best? i.e :

- how long should I run it for when cutting pork?
- should I still grind the fat?
- what difference should I expect to the end result because I used a bowl cutter instead of a grinder?

thanks as ever for any advice - reddal
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Post by fatboyz » Thu Oct 05, 2017 14:34

I only use my bowl cutter when making emulsified products like weiners, Weisswurst, Bierwurst or Lyoner. I still use my grinder for everything else. I grind my meat before throwing it in the cutter, but leave the fat as small cubes. With a cutter if you're making an emulsion you need to add a fair bit of ice, almost 25%. I run my cutter until the product is at a temp. of 12C.
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Thu Oct 05, 2017 16:48

Congrats on the new acquisition reddal! Using a cutter in making dry cured sausage is the preferred and superior way to go. It results in a better texture since there is no smearing and mashing of the meat and fat, and it gives the the slice an even and uniform appearance.

Having said that, this is accomplished in industry by large powerful cutters that are capable of chopping frozen meat. Many run on 400v or higher. My small Chinese model works well in emulsifying but does not work well in preparing salami type products. Maybe I have to experiment more, but when I did tried just after acquiring it, I was unable to get an evenly chopped batter. So it's difficult to give you proper advice here. Experiment and get to know your particular machine. What model and size did you buy? Is it dual or variable speed?
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Post by reddal » Thu Oct 05, 2017 19:15

Hi,

Its a medium size cutter - 5L capacity. Its from a Polish company I've bought a bunch of stuff from. Generally they seem to provide semi-commercial level equipment with reasonable quality and much cheaper than I've found elsewhere. This is the item, though the website is in polish so may not be much help - http://technologies4all.pl/en/cutters-f ... ow-5l.html .

Not sure if its going to be able to cut effectively through frozen meat - though it does look pretty serious so it might! I will experiment and report back... I'm hoping it will achieve a mix with a range of sizes rather than a completely even mix like the grinder produces. I'm hoping this will result in better texture of the final product.

I'm also going to experiment with binders (milk powder and soy protein) to see what difference they make... My Chorizo today is good, but a little crumbly. Commercial Chorizo tends to be almost rubbery in its solidity - and I don't want to replicate that - but something in the middle would be good.

So I should use the cutter for the fat aswell as the pork I guess?

- reddal
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Post by StefanS » Thu Oct 05, 2017 19:43

reddal wrote:This is the item, though the website is in polish so may not be much help - http://technologies4all.p...-owocow-5l.html .
It maybe surprise or not - but myself also and a few other guys ) on forum are fluent in Polish also. Are you too Redzed? :wink:
It looks like very nice piece of equipment. It looks like small little brother of Hobart (US) commercial bowl cutter. I will ask polish forum WD if somebody is using it.
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Post by Butterbean » Thu Oct 05, 2017 23:08

Just my opinion but I don't think its a matter of time but on how the meat looks while chopping. One thing I've found is its easy to over chop since they run so fast. Before using any meat just toss some whole onions in it and practice with that and you will see what I'm talking about.

Good luck and happy chopping.
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Post by redzed » Fri Oct 06, 2017 00:11

That is essentially the same machine as mine. I got mine directly from China.
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=7591&start=0
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... weisswurst
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... e373v1dfOD

Unfortunately while the capacity of the bowl is 5 litres, the most that you can prcess at a time is 3. Long, tedious and messy. Would also have been nice to have variable speed and more power.

The machine and the firm you purchased it from has been discussed on the Polish forum a few times, but I'm not sure whether anyone from that group actually bought it. I will look when time permits. Busy getting ready for the Canadian Thanksgiving celebrations.
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Post by reddal » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:31

Hi,

I had my first proper go at using the bowl cutter.

First I tried to cut 1.5kg of garlic bulbs. It wasn't a great success - bits flew out at various angles at high speed and had to give up on using it for that. As you said - cleanup was then painful.

Then I tried cutting meat (pork and pork fat in cubes with cure and spices already mixed in). This was more successful. I found I could only do 1-2 kg at a time - but I was able to produce a mix with quite a different texture to the grinder. I was only running the cutter for 20-30 seconds for each batch - aiming for a mix that still had some small pieces of pork and fat as-well as finer cut parts. To achieve that I had to sift through each batch and occasionally remove a larger uncut piece to add back into the next batch.

There was some meat that escaped out of the back of the machine - but it wasn't nearly as bad as the garlic bulbs. Overall it took longer to cut the meat than to grind it - but I worked through 64kg in about 90mins - so not impossibly slow. Cleaning it at the end was miserable though - very awkward.

I divided it all up into 3 batches of Chorizo - 1 using the grinder, 1 using the bowl cutter, and a final batch using the bowl cutter and adding some milk powder and soy protein as binder (which I haven't used before). It will be very interesting to see what the difference between these 3 are once its dried in a few weeks. I will post an update then.

- reddal
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Post by redzed » Thu Oct 19, 2017 01:16

Yes, definitely a learning curve in getting to know that machine. Cleaning does take a bit of work, The bowl removes easily, but the lid is a bit awkward. I keep mine on a cart and wheel it close to the sink where I can pull out the sprayer to clean the knife. For safety reasons it is really important that no particles of meat remain on the machine.

In regards to the bind, I don't remember whether you are using a starter and fermenting? The problem might be traced to the sausages not reaching a pH of 5.2-5.3 and not developing the "sol" or gelling as described by Gerhard Feiner in his book. I know that Len Poli's dry cured sausage recipes very often have binder ingredients, but they really should not be a necessity.
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Post by reddal » Thu Oct 19, 2017 08:29

redzed wrote:In regards to the bind, I don't remember whether you are using a starter and fermenting?
Yes - fermenting with BLC-007.
redzed wrote:The problem might be traced to the sausages not reaching a pH of 5.2-5.3 and not developing the "sol" or gelling as described by Gerhard Feiner in his book.
I ferment down to below 5.25 (I have a decent pH meter now) so I don't think that is the issue. Also in the past I've over-fermented and pushed the pH way too low - and the texture was similar.
redzed wrote:I know that Len Poli's dry cured sausage recipes very often have binder ingredients, but they really should not be a necessity.
Well I'll report back what difference they make.

To clarify - my texture issues aren't that bad - just a bit too crumbly and soft - but not terrible. I wouldn't want to create the completely solid almost rubbery texture of mass produced products - but something in the middle would be better I think.

Here is a picture to give you an idea of what I mean - with a sharp knife you can make reasonable slices - but they pull apart and crumble easily. Without a sharp knife its difficult to make clean slices at all.

Image

- reddal
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