Effects Of Added Alcohol In Sausage

story28 · Post by **story28** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 16:57

I bet you'd get one hell of a fermentation with jelly. That's A LOT of sugar.

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 17:07

Because acid also denatures proteins, we adjust the pH of the wine by deacidifying via the double-salt method.

I don't understand this method. Could you explain please?

vagreys · Post by **vagreys** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 06:56

ssorllih wrote:...Wine is fruit juice preserved with alcohol and jelly is fruit juice preserved with sugar.

True, but the flavors after fermentation into wine are significantly different from the unfermented fruit flavors in jelly. Wine is fruit juice fermented by yeast with alcohol as a byproduct, and what comes out as wine is very different from the fruit that goes into the process. I think you would get a vastly different result from adding cabernet sauvignon wine than you would adding a jelly made from cabernet sauvignon grape juice.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 08:55

OleBull, you wrote:

There are oenology books, deacidification charts and online calculators that can teach you better than I can.

OleBull, I`m afraid I don`t understand your demurral in answering Ross` question. After all, you are the one who initially brought up the subject when you wrote:

We use a lot of wine in our sausage making. Because acid also denatures proteins, we adjust the pH of the wine by deacidifying via the double-salt method. This reduces both malic and tartaric acids.

I`m sure Ross was not asking for specific details and simply wished to have an uncomplicated if not facile explanation of your "double salt" method. By the way, since you posted last, I have been flooded with emails and PMs inquiring about the very existence of such a procedure as the "double salt" method.

Something has me puzzled. Perhaps you may clarify a few points. You wrote:

Because acid also denatures proteins, we adjust the pH of the wine by deacidifying...

If the titratable acidity of your pH "adjusted" wine is finished at the norm (being between pH2.9 and pH3.9), is not the acidity in the solution indeed elevated?
Also, you stated:

This reduces both malic and tartaric acids.

What about the third primary acid found in wine grapes - citric acid? I realize that in the European Union, the use of citric acid for boosting acidification is prohibited. This is not my question. I`d like to know if the third primary acid found naturally in wine grapes is also "adjusted". Perhaps the level of citric acid remains unchanged for facilitating the removal of iron and copper in the nullibiety of potassium ferrocyanide.
I`m sure you are aware that found in less significant amounts in wine, are also acetic acid, tartaric acid, butyric acid , lactic acid, and succinic acid, all playing considerably essential roles. Are these also "adjusted" with the double salt process? Malic acid, being polyprotic, normally contributes multiple protons, yet in the case of malolactic fermentation, it simply provides two. Lactic acid being monoprotic, contributes merely one - explaining the "half effect" on acidity. My question is simply this: Is the first (pKa) constant of malic acid (3.4) lower than the single acidity constant of lactic acid (3.86) due to loss of merely a single proton? Just curious.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 15:47

Sven, I wasn't asking for a wine chemistry course just a brief outline. I don't have the benefit of several university degrees but I do have a reasonably well developed reading comprehension ability.

vagreys · Post by **vagreys** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 23:48

Sigh. The water is cold...and deep.

I really am just a good old boy from Virginia, and I was just hoping for a good discussion of how to safely add alcohol to a sausage mixture without breaking the actomyocin bond (now that I know that's what happened to one particular batch of venison sausage I made). I'm not particularly interested in the urinary olympics, thanks. My experience and knowledge of adjusting pH for brewing is limited to my local brewing club.

For those interested, there is, indeed, a technique for deacidification called the double-salt technique. So, you can stop bombarding CW with THAT question, at least!

Sven says they use a lot of wine for making their sausages, whoever "they" are. If they use the double-salt technique, then they must be making their own wine, since it is a technique for deacidifying grape must prior to fermentation. At least, it is from what this simple home brewer and sausage maker understands from sources such as the Washington State University extension office, UC-Davis, and the Penn State extension office.

Ross, the double-salt technique is a technique of applying calcium carbonate to deacidify grape must when one wishes to reduce total acidity in the must by more than 3 g/L. Calcium carbonate will form a salt with both malic acid and tartaric acid simultaneously, creating a double-salt, and the technique will significantly reduce the total acidity of the must, however, actual formation of the double-salt, itself, is very rare. More often, single salts are formed. The double-salt technique has a greater impact on tartaric acid levels in must, leaving behind malic acid unless the level of malic acid in the must is at least twice that of the tartaric acid. This means the technique can leave the must unbalanced, with what may be an undesired apple-y character. Thus, it is only applied to about 1/3 of the volume of the must, then the deacidified must is added back to the whole and the total acidity is adjusted using tartaric acid. For this reason, it is a technique applied before fermentation, rather than after. Also, it is only required when dealing with high-acid musts. At least, this is what I learned, but I'm certainly no master winemaker or commercial sausage maker. I'm just a good old boy interested in home sausage making, and making sausages that may contain some wine, mead, or even beer.

Since it is a technique used to adjust total acidity for a balanced target acidity in the finished wine, I'm not sure how it would be used to deacidify a finished wine for use in sausage making, without also destroying the desired wine character and flavor the wine is supposed to contribute to the sausage.

As far as applying heat to wine goes, I'd be concerned about how long one would have to apply 78°C heat to the wine to actually remove the alcohol (something like 2.5 hours to actually get rid of about 95% of the alcohol?), and what that would do to the flavor of the wine and how THAT would impact the sausage.

Personally, I'd like to know more about using an atomizer spray bottle to add wine to a sausage mixture. Is it more desireable to add it before the actomyocin develops, while it is developing, or after it starts to develop? Would it be better to add wine before adding salt to the mixture, or after? My own venison sausage recipe formulation calls for a red wine, and I'd like to know where in the process to add the wine and how quickly, to get the benefit of the wine without compromising the texture and integrity of the sausage mixture. Is there an optimal ABV and pH to look for, that would be useful for the home sausage maker to know? We know the ABV and we can test for the pH.

Dave Zac · Post by **Dave Zac** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 01:20

vagreys wrote: technique for deacidifying grape must prior to fermentation. At least, it is from what this simple home brewer and sausage maker understands

True...good research Tom. I use calcium carbonate for that exact purpose in a high acid must. And prior to fermentation as you said. Cold storage of the wine will help the tartaric acid fall out.

Now, let's get back to some real sausage making fellas.

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 01:36

Tom, Thank you! It doesn't sound like a double salt method is something that can be applied to a half bottle of wine in the kitchen of most homes.
My standard for using wine has always involved drinking a sample. If it is a good drinkable wine then it can be used for cooking but if it needs to be "fixed" it isn't usable.

vagreys · Post by **vagreys** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 06:02

ssorllih wrote:...My standard for using wine has always involved drinking a sample. If it is a good drinkable wine then it can be used for cooking but if it needs to be "fixed" it isn't usable.

Mine, too. I've been thinking that the batch of venison sausage fell apart because of the wine, but I didn't know why, other than that the wine was a bit young and I shouldn't have used it, yet. Now, I know better. Hoping to learn how to incorporate the alcohol with minimal impact on the sausage.

Maz · Post by **Maz** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 14:37

Have had similar problems with boerewors using vinegar 5%, eventually decided to exclude it altogether. Will give Chuck's spray method a bash, would be great if it works they way I expect it to.

Bubba · Post by **Bubba** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 20:17

Chuckwagon,

I have been following this topic with interest, for one because I previously tried using wine addition unsuccessfully, then I had a similar problem in the early days, also as Maz said above, adding Vinegar (I use Red Wine Vinegar).
Since my Vinegar is stored on the rack, the second time I tried refrigerating it before adding, and that made a vast difference. At the time I used an old spice bottle to "sprinkle" the liquid while mixing and the ice cold temperature worked well.

Yesterday I made a small 2 lb sausage batch to try your atomizing method and it does make a difference.
Thank you for the advice.
Although never mentioned in this topic string, I assume atomizing either Vinegar or Wine ice cold is recommended?

Then, what would the effect be if one had to try Apple Cider Vinegar?

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 20:33

We can discuss the differences in the effects of ethanol and ascetic acid on meat but wine contains several types of acid and different wines contain different combinations. So when the recipe calls for "red wine" or "white wine" There is a wide range of quality and variety to choose from. If we are making a sausage with an African tradition do we use an African vintage? Or a spanish sausage or Italian? Do we use a wine that is just drinkable or do we choose a much finer vintage?
Does apple cider vinegar also contain the acids normally found in fresh apples?

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 21:13

Hi Guys,
Bubba and Ross are certainly on the right track! Cold, cold, cold,... and "sprayed" into the mixture (slowly) or perhaps we should say "gently", as it is being agitated to develop the proteins. I have used good ol' Italian "red" (burgundy) all my life. Now I am finding that the pro's who sell the stuff in the marketplace, actually use a Spanish "Sangria" wine. Or so they say! Hmmm.... there is a lot to think about here...
There is no doubt that the Greeks, Italians, French, Germans, Spanish, and all other countries making fabulous red, dry, wines... ALL produce a suitable red, dry, wine to add to sausage. However, I agree with Ross, I will NOT modify its chemistry just to add it to sausage. If it is good enough to drink, then it should be good enough to add (in small amounts of course) to any good sausage... GRADUALLY... during the development of the proteins.
Here in Salt Lake City, there is a legendary family whom I have known well. They have made sausage for the past century or more. They actually started their brood in the county in which I was the sheriff. I had my coffee break every single day with my ol' pard Lou Colosimo! Yes, yes, yes... he was elected MAYOR of the city! All 400 pounds of him! I loved the man! Later the (Italian) family expanded their operation into a huge outlet that they have today in SLC. The family now produces the Colosimo brand premium sausages! And the sausage to buy is their "Italian Red Wine Sausage". SheeeeeYukssss pards... I don't know what's in it? I've even had a chemist (Dr. Ron Ragsdale at the University of Utah) analyze the stuff. We just cannot come up with the duplicate recipe. So, I suppose if anyone wants to taste REAL Italian Red Wine Sausage, they will have to purchase Colosimo's brand sausage. Goodness sakes... I've never endorsed a product in all my life... but you MUST try this one! NO, no, no,... they won't share the recipe! I've tried. I even thought I could analyze the stuff. Wrong! Whatever they do... it works for them. This is one of the very best tasting sausages in my opinion. Not at all like other commercial sausages. And it's all because the Colosimo brother's stumbled onto or developed the right process and recipe for their Red Wine Sausage! If you ever see it in your market, be SURE to buy it! It is the only commercial sausage I'd ever recommend.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 01:53

From what little that I know about wine and sausage and the choice of ingredients I can think of nothing that would preclude the use of sangria minus the chunks of fruit for the small amounts involved. Anyone can slavishly adhere to a recipe but the thing that makes some sausage makers into great sausage makers is a freedom of creativity.

There was once a man in a restrurant who ordered the soup du jour. When it was delivered to his table he loudly protested that this was not soup du jour. He had eaten soup du jour and it was chicken.
If I make sausage with sangria instead of burgundy I will not permit you to tell me that I was wrong. I may have been different but is my sausage and my kitchen.

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 02:22

WHAT ITALIAN burgundy?