Struggling with Frankfurters

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so_not_rad
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Struggling with Frankfurters

Post by so_not_rad » Tue Jan 21, 2020 09:36

Hello there!
I'm brand new to the forum, although I have been using it for the past couple years as a guide line for my own smoked meats and sausages.
Ive been recently asked to create a german version of the frankfurter (or hot dog) for a friend of mine, he requested 0 additives or preservatives.
I've had couple of trial runs recently but I keep having some issues.
My meats currently are
80% pork shoulder
20% pork fat
I use 18% ice water for the emulsion
The texture of my sausages are coming out quite mushy. The first batch, I've added too much water and they were very mushy.
Second trial batch I added exactly 15% and they came out a lot better. Unfortunately it is nowhere near the bouncy, springy meat with nice crunchy, snappy casings that I get in a store. I've had some questions hopefully you guys can answer:
- Do you guys have any basic recipes i could follow that do not contain any fillers or emulsification additives?
- I've read somewhere that an addition of an egg white can help the emulsification?
-I've researched a lot of recipes and some of them ask for lean mean, and some ask for cuts like shank and neck, what is the best cuts that i could use to get great emulsification?
-any other advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,
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Bob K
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Re: Struggling with Frankfurters

Post by Bob K » Tue Jan 21, 2020 16:02

Welcome to the Forum! You can find several Wiener - Hot Dog recipes here https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-recipes that contain no fillers but all will use Cure #1.....
You may be having some problems with your emulsification and there are some good tips in this string http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... lsion+tips
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DanMcG
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Re: Struggling with Frankfurters

Post by DanMcG » Thu Jan 23, 2020 17:56

With straight pork, no beef, I'd cut back on the water.
Egg white @ 1-3% will help firm it up as will NFDM.
The darker the meat (like the ones you mentioned) the more myosin it contains, so you'll get a better bind
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Re: Struggling with Frankfurters

Post by so_not_rad » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:01

Bob K wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 16:02
Welcome to the Forum! You can find several Wiener - Hot Dog recipes here https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-recipes that contain no fillers but all will use Cure #1.....
You may be having some problems with your emulsification and there are some good tips in this string http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... lsion+tips
Thanks for the answer Bob!
I've been reading through and through those posts over and over.
I'm starting to think that because i am omitting the binders and emulsifiers, it is the reason why I cannot get that "snap" when you bite into store bought hot dogs. I am desperately trying to get there. But it seems like even when I compare my dogs to a store bought ones, mine have less fat and are more soft then the factory made ones which have at least 15% more fat!
Drives me crazy.
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Re: Struggling with Frankfurters

Post by so_not_rad » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:07

DanMcG wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 17:56
With straight pork, no beef, I'd cut back on the water.
Egg white @ 1-3% will help firm it up as will NFDM.
The darker the meat (like the ones you mentioned) the more myosin it contains, so you'll get a better bind
Thanks for the guidance Dan!
Surprisingly my pork franks are much bouncier and snappier then the beef and pork ones.

My third trial, where I blended the lean meats first for about 4-6 minutes in low temps to develop myosin worked extremely well,
but the sausages came out dry and rubbery, the texture was terrible and that in turn made the casings very dry. Which just made the whole frankfurter un edible.

Like I mentioned above I'm chasing that "snap" that you get when you bite into the sausages. I'm starting to believe that it might be truly just because of amount of meat binders and emulsifiers added to the mix.

My next batch I'll make one with some egg whites. Hopefully that will make it a bit more dense.
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redzed
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Re: Struggling with Frankfurters

Post by redzed » Thu Jan 30, 2020 07:39

How about giving us the recipe, the ingredients and the exact process when you make your franks? Are you grinding, using a food processor, bowl cutter? Are you staying within the temperature guidelines? Are you smoking and poaching? What type of casings are you using?
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Re: Struggling with Frankfurters

Post by so_not_rad » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:25

redzed wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 07:39
How about giving us the recipe, the ingredients and the exact process when you make your franks? Are you grinding, using a food processor, bowl cutter? Are you staying within the temperature guidelines? Are you smoking and poaching? What type of casings are you using?
Correct, so sorry I should have started with that :
Beef
1200 Gr Lean Beef
200 Gr Lean Pork
200 Gr Pork Fat
400 Gr Ice Snow
2% Salt
6 Gr White pepper
1,6 Gr Ginger Powder
1,6 Gr Nutmeg Powder
,6 Gr Cardamom

Pork
500 Gr Collar
300 Gr Loin
200 Gr Pork Fat
250 Gr Ice Water
1.5 Gr White Pepper
.5 Gr Nutmeg
.5 Gr Coriander
2 Grams Paprika
2 Grams Garlic Powder
.4 Gr Ginger
.4 Gr Cardamom
2% Salt

I'm currently marinating the meat overnight, next day I grind twice on the smallest size. Unfortunately I am not lucky enough to have a bowl cutter yet, but I am using a food processor, a robot coupe. I start with just the meat almost frozen and I blend for about 4-5 minutes with an addition of ice snow. Then I add the spices and fat at the end with just the small rest of the ice. I never surpass 15C while blending. I let the mix cool down again and stuff into collagen casings size 24. I smoke for about an hour at 60-70C and then poach until it reaches 72C inside. Then shower with cold water and let cool down in the fridge before i pack them away.
Thats it! As I mentioned before I don't use any curing salts or emulsifiers.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Bob K
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Re: Struggling with Frankfurters

Post by Bob K » Sat Feb 01, 2020 14:12

2 Things I see.
No cure. Without it they will not be firm and probably grey in color, If you want the " nitrate free " version the stores sell use celery powder. Just be aware that you are still adding nitrates but its a loophole in the regs that allow them to say " no added nitrates".
Casings. There are so many different types of collagen casings out there that is sometimes difficult to get the snap that you are looking for, use sheep casings instead.
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