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[USA] Old Fashioned Wieners

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 01:08
by IdaKraut
I've been to all the grocery stores in my area and to my dismay not a single one had old fashioned wieners in natural casings. Mechanically separated chicken: what the heck is that crap? Not in my wieners. Here's my recipe, and I should add, that this one turned out the best I have ever made or tasted. It's a touch heavy on the garlic but tastes really wonderful.

Meats, fats:

Beef chuck 3.8 lbs
Pork butt 5.8 lbs
Pork back fat 1.7 lbs

Total = 10.3 lbs, but I rounded down to 10 lbs for the spices (based on 10 lbs or 4540 g):


Cure #1 0.265% 12.0g
Trehalose (Helps to add some sweetness, but mainly helps to keep frozen product from developing ice crystals) 2.5% 113.5g
Onion powder 0.2% 9.1g
Garlic powder 0.35% 15.9g
Sweet paprika 0.46% 21g
Kosher salt 2.0% 91g
Mace, ground 0.1% 4.5g
White pepper 0.3% 13.6g
Table sugar 0.7% 32g
Coriander, ground 0.2% 9.1g
Mustard, ground 0.2% 9.1g
Celery salt 0.05% 3.0g
Marjoram 0.1% 4.5g
Non-fat dry milk powder 3.0% 136.2g
Fresh egg whites (each large egg white is about 30g) 2.7% 123g (4 egg whites)
B&P Meat binder (phosphates) 0.5% 22.7g
Sodium erythorbate 0.55% 25g
MSG 0.5% 22.7g

Ice water 15% 681ml

Grind almost frozen back fat through 3mm plate followed by beef and pork. Mix all dry spices into meat paste well and then run through 3mm plate a second time (or feel free to spend the time with the food processor and emulsify). After 2nd grinding, add ice water and incorporate well until nice and sticky.

Stuff into 24 - 26mm sheep casings:

Kirby Campbell was kind enough to make some deflatulators for my stuffing tubes which really helps to remove excess trapped air. Attached with some electrical tape as shown below:


And with sheep casings in place:


After stuffing, place in cooler overnight (or not, I was running late and didn't want to smoke and cook the same day).

The next day, place in smoker, no smoke, until casings are dry to touch at 120°F for about an hour. Then apply smoke (I used pecan pellets via the Amazin Pellet smoker) for exactly 2 hours. After smoking, the wieners go into hot water which is held at 160°F until internal meat temp hits 152°F. Then, immediately place into large bucket with ice and cold water and allow to completely cool and to prevent shrinkage.

Sorry, didn't take pics except for this one of the finished wieners in vacuum bags ready for the freezer. The final weight was right at 12 pounds:


Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 04:01
by pikeman_95
Thanks for posting the recipe. I had to guess where to flair that fitting and it looks close but not right on. You can heat it again with a paint stripping heat gun and reshape while it is hot. It probably worked OK the way it is. I sure like the looks of your recipe. I think you managed to use everything in the spice rack. I just had one of my German Franks with Kraut and just love that meal.

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 07:30
by Thewitt
Electrical tape is food safe?

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 07:41
by redzed
Interesting spice mix. Lots and lots of ingredients, and with the amounts, none probably dominate, woulkd love to try a sample!

But, at the same time, I wonder whether this is in fact an "original wiener recipe". Can you disclose the source of this concoquere?

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 14:34
by IdaKraut
redzed wrote:Interesting spice mix. Lots and lots of ingredients, and with the amounts, none probably dominate, woulkd love to try a sample!

But, at the same time, I wonder whether this is in fact an "original wiener recipe". Can you disclose the source of this concoquere?
I reviewed lots and lots of recipes over the years and have tried quite a few. I decided to go with what I thought would work and bring the taste to where I wanted it. I did make 3 different test batches before settling on the one I posted.


I'm not sure about electrical tape being food grade, probably not. Any ideas of what would be that can be used?

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 16:05
by Thewitt
Rudy, 3M makes food grade tape. I'm sure others do as well.

I'm not sure where you can find it, but I would have to believe Spokane or Coeur d'Alene would have it.

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 17:04
by IdaKraut

Just an addendum: I did not plagiarize someone else's recipe. This is my own. I realize there are lots of wiener recipes out there that use some or all of the ingredients I listed but none that have the percentages or other ingredients I used. Is it "original old fashioned", obviously not. They didn't have meat binder phosphates, sodium erythorbate or Trehalose back then.

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 17:15
by ssorllih
I always make attribution if I have used an existing recipe as a starting point. If it is an evolution with obscure origins then that can be a clue to how I was able to get from here to there. Not necessary but it provides back ground to the story.

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 17:24
by IdaKraut

I truly did not use an existing recipe. I've been experimenting with hot dog recipes for some 20 years. Did I get inspired by other recipes? Sure. Marianski has a good recipe but it was very bland. Rytek also has a recipe but again I was not impressed. Therefore, I cannot quote the origin and can only say this is my own. I will never claim a recipe as my own unless it really is.

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 17:31
by ssorllih
Rudy , then this was a recipe that has evolved through many tries and refinement. A tweak here and an addition there. Not all that different than my development of liver pate`. I started with a common Jewish chopped liver recipe and progressed through other permutations to my present one that closely resembles the Marianski recipe but I am not satisfied yet. So I will keep trying.

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 18:42
by redzed
I never doubted your creativity Rudy, just questioned it as being an "original wiener recipe" and you answered my question. Your recipes, experimentation and meticulous documentation are appreciated.

And without taking anything away from Marianski, his recipes are not, for the most part, his own, but rather a compilation resulting from research. Sometimes I wonder whether he in fact tried making each one.

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 19:06
by ssorllih
People have been cooking ever since the first human group discovered that cooked food was easier to eat and tasted better. probably a group near starvation after a large forest fire and the discovery of a dead and roasted animal casualty in the still smoldering ashes. When ever people had a surplus they tried ways to preserve it. Intestine makes handy carrying cases for cut up meat and lots of other stuff. Evolution is a wonderful process and it is still happening. Words that define human behavior translate into all languages because people are very much the same everywhere. There are however many words for food types and preparations that don't translate because another culture would have no understanding of what it could be.

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 06:12
by ursula
meat binder phosphates, sodium erythorbate Trehalose
Hi Rudy,
Are there any substitutes for the ingredients you used? Would soy protein, for example, create the same effect as the phosphates? - I'd love to try your recipes but don't like my chances of obtaining any of these three ingredients here in oz.
Regards Ursula

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 09:09
by Chuckwagon
Rudy wrote:
I truly did not use an existing recipe. I've been experimenting with hot dog recipes for some 20 years. Did I get inspired by other recipes? Sure.
Hey pal, everyone on this site knows that half my recipes were heavily influenced by my summer with good ol' Rytek Kutas in 1965 Las Vegas! Heck, we have all learned by the influence of others, have we not? Recipes can't be copyrighted anyway. Heck, I'm sure this recipe is yours indeed! No problem whatsoever. All I have ever requested is that to have one placed into the MRI, that it be "original" and yours will surely go in this weekend.

I tried your recipe today Rudy, and found it to be one heck of a good sausage. My friend Mickey went nuts over them. But I must confess, I couldn't quite bring myself to use the sodium erythorbate, phosphate, and trehalose... simply out of personal preference. I have always avoided their use in my own sausages - just a predilection I have.
Mmmm... good sausage Rudy! :wink:

Best Wishes,

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 14:48
by Cabonaia
Rudy - Wow, that is my kind of recipe. I like all the ingredients you deployed. Marianski, our guru :) prefers a minimum # of spices (or "perfumes") but I like a lot in most cases. Just preference. Whenever I make a sausage I refer to at least 2 formulas - usually the WD recipe members index, Len Poli (who goes too light on salt for my likes), Michael Rhulman, and Marianski -- and also Jason Molinari if I am dry curing whole meats. I check recipes against Marianki's for integrity, as I trust his methods implicitly. The recipe I end up using is usually a hybrid, but I couldn't call it original like yours. Anyway, I'm going to try it because I've never made dogs to my satisfaction and yours looks like the one I've been looking for. (That statement was from the Department of Redundancy Department.)

Sadly, it won't happen for a while. This summer is crazy busy at home.

So... thanks!