Sous Vide for collagen casings

Thewitt · Post by **Thewitt** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:17

I've been working on several different ways to help a colleague with her gourmet sausage sandwich business. We went from natural to collagen casings to keep her sausage straight so they can go on a hotdog roller, but she is still pan frying these first then using the roller just to keep them warm.

She would like to poach them and then finish them on the roller, no grill pan, but poaching them makes the casings look horrible.

Has anyone tried sous vide side cooking with collagen cased pork sausages? That's my project for later today, though I don't have a real temp control for sous vide so I'll have to just carefully watch a large pot on the stove this time...

I'm guessing the casings will survive this better than poaching since they are not in contact with the water, then finishing them on the roller heater will allow them to achieve a nice color and crispness.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:44

In muscle, collagen serves as the major component of the endomysium - the layer of connective tissue that forms a sheath around a muscle fiber. Due to its high water holding capacity, it is used as binding agent in blood sausages and gelatins. It serves for the manufacture of artificial casings that are not soaked or exposed to water or moisture during the sausage-making or cooking process.

Collagen is a group of proteins found in mammalian flesh and connective tissue and makes up 30% of the whole-body protein content, but constitutes only one to two percent of muscle tissue. In fibrous tissue such as ligaments and tendons, it consists of elongated "fibrils".
Because of it`s water-holding ability, collagen does not lend itself well to the cooking style of sous vide.

However, you may wish look into the possibility of the "plastic" casings that are stripped from the sausage after the proteins set-up the meat. You`ll recognize the casings having a blue or black stripe running down the entire length of the casing. Commercial hot dogs are made in this manner and the casing are stripped away following "prep-cooking". The "pellicle" left behind, serves to hold the sausage together in the "molded" form it had when the proteins were "set".

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Thewitt · Post by **Thewitt** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:56

Since Sous Vide Side is done inside a vacuum bag, the casings don't come in contact with water. Why would this not work?

I have considered hotdog casings and may indeed go down that route if this experiment fails...

Post by **Bob K** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 16:10

Maybe Cw didn't realize the souse vide is done in a vacuum sealed bag.

It works just fine.

If you choose to use the cellulose casings ("plastic") they also work great. Just dont let them bloom or dry out before removing or they become a REAL pain to remove.

Baconologist · Post by **Baconologist** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 20:39

In spite of the name, sealing the bag with vacuum isn't a requirement.
Sous vide is a great way to cook sausages....collagen or natural casings work fine.

Post by **redzed** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 22:11

I would wait for the results of the experiment. "Collagen casing" is a broad term, and there are so many different ones out there and made in different parts of the world for different types of sausage. An enquiry to the manufacturer might also help.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 13:16

Guys...
The original problems were:
1. We went from natural to collagen casings to keep her sausage straight so they can go on a hotdog roller...
2. She would like to poach them and then finish them on the roller, no grill pan, but poaching them makes the casings look horrible.

Bob K wrote:

Maybe Cw didn't realize the souse vide is done in a vacuum sealed bag.
It works just fine.
If you choose to use the cellulose casings ("plastic") they also work great. Just dont let them bloom or dry out before removing or they become a REAL pain to remove.
Bob K

Of course I realize it. And it's a real pain in the butt to continually produce it economically and comercially. I believe we all understand the principles of sous vide cooking as first described by Sir Benjamin Thompson in 1799, re-discovered by American and French engineers in the mid-1960s, and later developed into an industrial food preservation method - the method being adopted by Georges Pralus in 1974 for the Restaurant Troisgros in Roanne, France. (Bruno Goussault, further researched the effects of temperature on various foods and became well known for training top chefs in the method.) Sous vide is not the topic here. "Straight" sausage on a hot dog roller is.

My concern is that the sausage (made with collagen casing) is placed into plastic under vacuum conditions, still retains the moisture inside and the casing remains "soggy". It is also quite a feat to keep the sausages "straight" to be rolled and finished on a hot dog roller. The more feasible, economical, practicable, and uncomplicated solution would be to simply use the plastic (form-shaping) casings in the first place. It definitely solves the mushy "horrible" casing problem, as there is no casing at the end of the process.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Post by **Bob K** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 16:49

Chuckwagon wrote:Guys...
The original problems were:
1. We went from natural to collagen casings to keep her sausage straight so they can go on a hotdog roller...
2. She would like to poach them and then finish them on the roller, no grill pan, but poaching them makes the casings look horrible.

Bob K wrote:
Maybe Cw didn't realize the souse vide is done in a vacuum sealed bag.
It works just fine.
If you choose to use the cellulose casings ("plastic") they also work great. Just dont let them bloom or dry out before removing or they become a REAL pain to remove.
Bob K
Of course I realize it.
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Sorry CW

And Dang you are as good as wikipedia! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sous-vide

Is an oven or microwave for pre heating/cooking an option before the roller?

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 03:24

Hey, Heyl, Bob K!
Shucks pal, don't be sorry.... be hungry! Make some sausage! It's nice to have you on WD Bob. Keep up the chat. Shucks, I was just showin' off.

Heck, sharing different ideas is what this WD business is all about. Now.... back to work! Mix that sausage and don't forget to stab it with needles. And if you see that danged duck around anywhere, give him a few jabs also!

Good luck pal!

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Thewitt · Post by **Thewitt** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 04:29

She makes 1000 sausages a day. Short of a high volume need and yet enough to require economy of activity.

The initial test with Sous Vide Side worked fine. The casings look appealing, the roller is able to grill them to a nice finished product, and keeping them straight was not an issue as they were tightly packed in the vacuum bags.

The extra step of vacuum packing and the slower cooking method will pose some challenges. I'll need to set up a real thermostaticalky controlled cooker that can handle at least half a day's production, and find a different vacuum sealer than my home unit.

I'm going to try some of the plastic hotdog casings that CW recommends and see how that works out. Need to source them first though.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 05:08

Tim,
I hope they work out for you. Remember to get that casing off as soon as possible.
Bob K wrote:

If you choose to use the cellulose casings ("plastic") they also work great. Just dont let them bloom or dry out before removing or they become a REAL pain to remove.

Let us know how they turn out.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Thewitt · Post by **Thewitt** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 01:07

I just wanted to follow up on this thread and let everyone know that this is NOT going to work.

It turns out our limited success was not repeatable, and must have had something to do with the soecific casings we used.

A pre production run of 100 sasages resulted in all casings spliting and peeling off during the finish grilling on the rollers. Though cooking them sous vide side looked like it was going to be fine, the casings did not survive with any integrity.

We will switch casing suppliers and try once more, but im afraid the early optimism was unfounded.

ped · Post by **ped** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 09:44

At what temp did you SV and for how long?

Thewitt · Post by **Thewitt** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 09:53

60C for an hour. The sausage are 28mm in diameter.