Originally posted in Contact Marianski thread
Understand that; maybe you can help me with this Redzed:
I'm using the Marianski Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages recipe, (copyright 2010) page 431 for Polish Cold Smoked Sausage.
You see where it calls for an initial 1-2 day hanging period at 35-42f degrees, followed by cold smoking and hanging at 50-53 degrees.
Can you help me understand if this is indeed correct. One of the guys said an initial fermenting stage should be 75-80 degrees, even though the recipe does not call for that.
Its my first batch of dried sausage so I want to be sure I'm doing things right; thanks!
tom anderson
Polish Cold Smoked
Polish Cold Smoked
Last edited by Oberst on Tue Dec 27, 2016 22:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Butterbean
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I think it would really depend on what type fermentation you wanted and the culture you use - if any. A higher temp might give you a faster pH drop depending on the culture. There seems to be a tradeoff here. By trading insurance of a quick hurdle you are losing some of the more subtle flavors and aromas you can get with a slower fermentation. I don't think there is any right or wrong way but from what I've found a slower - cooler - fermentation seems yield a higher salami with more character.
Hope this is helpful.
Hope this is helpful.
Hi Tom,
To begin with, we need to know what you will be doing with the sausage once you smoke it. An authentic Polska Kielbasa Wedzona is prepared, cold smoked, and dried for a couple of days. Most people consume it shortly after that, and it is eaten poached or grilled. But it can also be hung in a cool and humid place and dried. In Poland it was a way to preserve the sausage over the cold months from pork slaughtered in the fall. If you want to make it in the traditional way, then follow the recipe as outlined by Marianski. Since the sausage has a small addition of sugar there will probably be some fermentation but essentially it will be more in the style of a dried sausage. An since it will be stuffed into fairly narrow casings, it should dry fairly quickly. There is also a good version of essentially the same recipe translated on Len Poli's site. http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Polish-wedzona.pdf It follows the steps from the recipe on the Polish WD site http://wedlinydomowe.pl/index.php?optio ... 8&Itemid=4
If you like, you can add a starter culture and ferment it for a couple of days before smoking, or, ferment while in the smoker, as long as you keep the temperature that was recommended by the manufacturer. Butterbean added culture to his version and was very pleased with it. http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... a&start=15
If making without the starter, use Cure #1. If with culture, use #2. I would also lower the salt from what is in the recipes to 22.5g/kg, so that with the curing salt you will have 2.5%.
Don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions.
Below are pics of the polska wędzona recently posted on the Polish WD Forum by paweljack. He followed the recipe in every single detail.
To begin with, we need to know what you will be doing with the sausage once you smoke it. An authentic Polska Kielbasa Wedzona is prepared, cold smoked, and dried for a couple of days. Most people consume it shortly after that, and it is eaten poached or grilled. But it can also be hung in a cool and humid place and dried. In Poland it was a way to preserve the sausage over the cold months from pork slaughtered in the fall. If you want to make it in the traditional way, then follow the recipe as outlined by Marianski. Since the sausage has a small addition of sugar there will probably be some fermentation but essentially it will be more in the style of a dried sausage. An since it will be stuffed into fairly narrow casings, it should dry fairly quickly. There is also a good version of essentially the same recipe translated on Len Poli's site. http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Polish-wedzona.pdf It follows the steps from the recipe on the Polish WD site http://wedlinydomowe.pl/index.php?optio ... 8&Itemid=4
If you like, you can add a starter culture and ferment it for a couple of days before smoking, or, ferment while in the smoker, as long as you keep the temperature that was recommended by the manufacturer. Butterbean added culture to his version and was very pleased with it. http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... a&start=15
If making without the starter, use Cure #1. If with culture, use #2. I would also lower the salt from what is in the recipes to 22.5g/kg, so that with the curing salt you will have 2.5%.
Don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions.
Below are pics of the polska wędzona recently posted on the Polish WD Forum by paweljack. He followed the recipe in every single detail.
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BlueMonkey
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This is one of my favourite Sausages, and I make them regularly in about 6kg batches (1 shoulder), and they tend to last only a month or so with give-aways etc....
My method is probably a little more traditional as i have made several tweaks to the published recipe
I dice all the meat into about 2 inch cubes, and then mix in all the salt, sugar and Cure #1. (note, 1, not 2. I may be incorrect, but I believe that as the sausage will be ready in a fortnight, cure 2 is not necessary).
Once thoroughly mixed I transfer to a clean container, and pack in tightly ( no higher than 8 inches).
I refrigerate this for about 72 hours ( or slightly longer - not less). Covered with only a tea-towel ( not cling film) to allow the gasses from the fermentation to escape.
After the 72 hours I then roughly separate the pieces into the fatty / non-fatty cubes and though sometimes I just put them all through a 13mm plate as advised by Marianski in his book "The Art of Making Fermented Sausages"
From there I follow his recipe you refer to, adding spices etc. Hanging at the prescribed temperature in the fridge at the required humidity again prior to smoking).
I smoke for about 24 hours in total, over a period of several days. Typically start when the temperatures are cooler ( matching my curing chamber), then after smoking 8 or so hours transfer into the curing chamber until the next smoking. That way there is no major fluctuations of temperature to throw the fermentation out.
I weigh the sausages AFTER the smoking, just because it is only a minimal moisture loss required, so allows me a bit of lee-way.
I eat this sausage as is, no further cooking.
I find the best result is with Applewood, or a mix of 75% apple, 25% cherry so it is not too over powered.
Hopefully this is of some assistance, and you can get some ideas.
Please note, this is only how I approach it, and you may want to check with others the Validity of eating after a 13% wieght loss, and the substitution of Cure 2 with #1.
All the best,
Tony
My method is probably a little more traditional as i have made several tweaks to the published recipe
I dice all the meat into about 2 inch cubes, and then mix in all the salt, sugar and Cure #1. (note, 1, not 2. I may be incorrect, but I believe that as the sausage will be ready in a fortnight, cure 2 is not necessary).
Once thoroughly mixed I transfer to a clean container, and pack in tightly ( no higher than 8 inches).
I refrigerate this for about 72 hours ( or slightly longer - not less). Covered with only a tea-towel ( not cling film) to allow the gasses from the fermentation to escape.
After the 72 hours I then roughly separate the pieces into the fatty / non-fatty cubes and though sometimes I just put them all through a 13mm plate as advised by Marianski in his book "The Art of Making Fermented Sausages"
From there I follow his recipe you refer to, adding spices etc. Hanging at the prescribed temperature in the fridge at the required humidity again prior to smoking).
I smoke for about 24 hours in total, over a period of several days. Typically start when the temperatures are cooler ( matching my curing chamber), then after smoking 8 or so hours transfer into the curing chamber until the next smoking. That way there is no major fluctuations of temperature to throw the fermentation out.
I weigh the sausages AFTER the smoking, just because it is only a minimal moisture loss required, so allows me a bit of lee-way.
I eat this sausage as is, no further cooking.
I find the best result is with Applewood, or a mix of 75% apple, 25% cherry so it is not too over powered.
Hopefully this is of some assistance, and you can get some ideas.
Please note, this is only how I approach it, and you may want to check with others the Validity of eating after a 13% wieght loss, and the substitution of Cure 2 with #1.
All the best,
Tony
Thanks for the input guys! It sounds like I'm on track with the Marianski Polish recipe. I'm obviously on the slow fermentation route per Butterbean's comments.
I don't plan to cook this sausage; so I'll keep it drying until I get at least to 87%. I did use cure #2 as the recipe calls for, and did go with the original 28gm of salt. Wish I would have cut that per Redzed's comment. Well its a learning process. This is my first dried sausage that may succeed so I'm anxious to see how things turn out.
If you remember, I tried making the Marianski Russian last year, but used duck and goose. That was a disaster because of the super low melt point of the fat. Threw that batch away.
I don't plan to cook this sausage; so I'll keep it drying until I get at least to 87%. I did use cure #2 as the recipe calls for, and did go with the original 28gm of salt. Wish I would have cut that per Redzed's comment. Well its a learning process. This is my first dried sausage that may succeed so I'm anxious to see how things turn out.
If you remember, I tried making the Marianski Russian last year, but used duck and goose. That was a disaster because of the super low melt point of the fat. Threw that batch away.
Here's an update: The sausage dried down to 78% over 10 days after the cold smoke. This is my first dried sausage; all others have been semi dried. This long slow drying process really seems to work well and impart very nice flavors. Redzed was right in that a little less salt would have been okay, but its not objectionably salty, and now when I add a slice of cucumber or tomato to a cracker with the sausage I don't add any salt.
I thought this batch was going to be too fatty (2 lbs of elk, 2 pounds fatty butt, 12 oz diced fat back) but I ate a whole link and just couldn't say the fat was too high for me. The recipe called for Cure 2 and I went with that. I'm going to let this sausage dry a little bit more although the drying has slowed down at this point.
Definitely won't be my last dried sausage; I'm looking forward to trying other dried recipes. There is nothing better than a good old-world dried sausage, and now I'm thinking with more experience I can actually make them myself!
Thanks for your help!!
I thought this batch was going to be too fatty (2 lbs of elk, 2 pounds fatty butt, 12 oz diced fat back) but I ate a whole link and just couldn't say the fat was too high for me. The recipe called for Cure 2 and I went with that. I'm going to let this sausage dry a little bit more although the drying has slowed down at this point.
Definitely won't be my last dried sausage; I'm looking forward to trying other dried recipes. There is nothing better than a good old-world dried sausage, and now I'm thinking with more experience I can actually make them myself!
Thanks for your help!!
