Salame without Cultures

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BriCan
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Post by BriCan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 04:56

LOUSANTELLO wrote:I was hoping the unit would go to 75F, as I could use it as a fermentation unit, but 85F is the lowest.
I fermentate at 85F to 90F always with no problems
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Tue Jun 07, 2016 05:03

That high? What culture and what types of meat recipes?
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Post by BriCan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 09:26

LOUSANTELLO wrote:That high? What culture and what types of meat recipes?
I do as I said fermentate at 85F to 90F for a minimum of 3 days and up to 7 days depending on the salame's

Without trying to start a holy war .. I do not use starter cultures at all. I have tried while running a smokehouse but it was not to my taste nor our customers -- the taste is clean without any type of tang that is associated with the cultures

I have Italian salame as well as Genoa salame on the go

I have in storage (vacuum pack) Duck and Orange salame, BP Reserve salame, Lions salame as well as Landjäger (which I make 30kg every 3 weeks)
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Post by Bob K » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:31

You should also mention the temperature and environment that you dry them at.
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Post by Butterbean » Tue Jun 07, 2016 14:41

Brican, somewhere I got the idea you are curing in a walk in cooler and if this is right I was wondering how this is set up. In particular, the condenser fan unit. I was wondering if you have it where the fan runs continuously or have you hooked the fan wire to the other pole on the compressor switch where the fan only kicks on when the cooling unit turns on. Reason I ask is I have a walk in that holds perfect humidity for curing only I'm reluctant to put salami in it for fear of excessive drying from the air flow but I believe I could easily switch this over in just a few minutes so the fans only turn on during cooling. The humidity doesn't seem to be a problem but this could easily be addressed if need be.
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Post by BriCan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 15:26

Bob K wrote:You should also mention the temperature and environment that you dry them at.
If I am not drying at home in my basement (12 degrees C. with 75% humidity) I am drying in the walk-in cooler at work which runs at 4 degrees C with 75% humidity
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Post by BriCan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 15:35

Butterbean wrote:Brican, somewhere I got the idea you are curing in a walk in cooler
Yes I am and have been since the late nineteen hundreds
and if this is right I was wondering how this is set up. In particular, the condenser fan unit. I was wondering if you have it where the fan runs continuously or have you hooked the fan wire to the other pole on the compressor switch where the fan only kicks on when the cooling unit turns on.
It runs constant 24/7
Reason I ask is I have a walk in that holds perfect humidity for curing only I'm reluctant to put salami in it for fear of excessive drying from the air flow but I believe I could easily switch this over in just a few minutes so the fans only turn on during cooling. The humidity doesn't seem to be a problem but this could easily be addressed if need be.
How big is your walk-in and how many fans on your coil?
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Post by Butterbean » Tue Jun 07, 2016 15:58

Its a 10x10 with a 3 fan unit.

I've been tempted to try and hang some salami in it but am afraid the air speed would lead to case hardening but the humidity is about perfect and it feels very cave-like apart from the air speed.
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Tue Jun 07, 2016 17:13

So, assuming the humidity is the same 75% in the walk-in, do you find the colder temp to dry slower or faster? Are you introducing any mold? If not, do you find the mold to be more, less or none at the lower temperature assuming the humidity is the same as home?
I find this to be interesting because a deli down the street drys his in a walk-in. When I buy them, the casings are still on with no mold. I'm not convinced he is doing anything unnaturally to reduce the mold.
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Post by Butterbean » Tue Jun 07, 2016 19:11

Can't speak for Brican but when I do hang meat in this cooler it does get some mold on it but only after its been left unattended for some time - many weeks if not months but I do have some smoked bacon in it that has better than a year on it and there is no mold on that.

My concern has been the air flow and case hardening. Just seems like a lot of airflow. Don't know why I've never just offered the cooler a sacrificial salami to see what it would do. I have considered blocking off a section of the cooler and hanging a shower curtain just to impede some of the air flow but haven't tried it yet.
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Post by BriCan » Wed Jun 08, 2016 09:21

Butterbean wrote:Its a 10x10 with a 3 fan unit.

I've been tempted to try and hang some salami in it but am afraid the air speed would lead to case hardening but the humidity is about perfect and it feels very cave-like apart from the air speed.
So here is the deal -- what is under your 3 fan unit (by the way ours is a 4 fan unit, imagine the gail force winds off that :) )

99.9999% of the time it is empty -- if so get yourself a bakers rack and place under the 3 fan unit and hang your stuff there

You are out of direct line of fire from the fans and the air will circulate around the chamber

If I was on my laptop (which I am not due to being out of service) I could show you all this set up and this computer is not set up for photographs yet :(
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Post by BriCan » Wed Jun 08, 2016 09:29

LOUSANTELLO wrote:So, assuming the humidity is the same 75% in the walk-in, do you find the colder temp to dry slower or faster?
Slower -- just like aging fine wine -- I have had my Duck and Orange Salame toke up to a year to come close to 40% weight loss -- most of the time Salame;s take 6 months

Are you introducing any mold?
No it is all natural
If not, do you find the mold to be more, less or none at the lower temperature assuming the humidity is the same as home?
It is constant -- starts off slow 2 to 3 weeks before it stats to show
I find this to be interesting because a deli down the street drys his in a walk-in. When I buy them, the casings are still on with no mold. I'm not convinced he is doing anything unnaturally to reduce the mold.
I cannot speak for someone else as I do not know there set up

Are any of you on Facebook??
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Post by BriCan » Wed Jun 08, 2016 09:39

Butterbean wrote:Can't speak for Brican but when I do hang meat in this cooler it does get some mold on it but only after its been left unattended for some time - many weeks if not months but I do have some smoked bacon in it that has better than a year on it and there is no mold on that.

We are talking about tow different things here --- Meat is one thing and as you know dry ageing beef will dry and get "some" mould on the meat surface, this is a given

Now the second part of what you said is that you have smoked (cold?) bacon in the walk-in that is a year plus on it but does not have any mould.

It is a known fact for most of us in the trade to know that anything that has been smoked will not get any mould :)
My concern has been the air flow and case hardening. Just seems like a lot of airflow. Don't know why I've never just offered the cooler a sacrificial salami to see what it would do. I have considered blocking off a section of the cooler and hanging a shower curtain just to
impede some of the air flow but haven't tried it yet.
Just do it, what have you got to lose ...... $5 cost of the salame?

I can send you that or I could send you one of my salame's :)
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Post by Butterbean » Wed Jun 08, 2016 22:56

Thanks for the insight Brican! I had such fear of it having too much airflow causing case hardening I didn't just stop and think it seems. I stood in the cooler on the other side of the fans and found the air speed really isn't that much - just like you said. Its steady but not that fast at all. I even felt the brick hit me in the head when the epiphany occurred. Thanks again for the insight.

I prefer drying sausages in a larger space because I find its much more forgiving than a confined space. During the winter months I just hang everything from the ceiling in the kitchen. The humidity and temp stays well within ideal conditions and what I found interesting is when the temp increases so does the humidity so the meat seems to go through cycles of fast drying then slow drying or a rest period which I find beneficial.

Anyhow, thanks again for the tip and I'll start using your method in the future once I've made a few adjustments in the cooler.
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