first time coldsmoking sausage, dont want to kill wife and c

slickric
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first time coldsmoking sausage, dont want to kill wife and c

Post by slickric » Fri May 16, 2014 03:52

hi guys, live in tampa (humid) and make sausage for fun (hotsmoke in cookshack smoker) but i really want to coldsmoke. i bought a fridge, drilled a hole in side, made smoke generator, and pipe smoke into fridge. i bought 2 small computer fans for fridge to dry (was going to put sausage on top shelf fan facing down on bottom shelf to not dry too fast). i was told to salt pork but for 1 day put in fridge, grind w/ spices and prague powder day 2, put in fridge at 17c, smoke for 2 hours , leave in fridge, smoke for 2 hours next 2 days, then leave in fridge w/ fans at 17c for 2 weeks then eat. my wife is afraid if its not cooked we will get sick. do i have proper procedure, is anything wrong or missing, doi need to worry about humidity in fridge or not. any help would be appreciated b4 i start this, thanks john
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Post by ssorllih » Fri May 16, 2014 04:50

Say what?
Ross- tightwad home cook
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Post by slickric » Fri May 16, 2014 12:37

say what,i explained how im doing this, you cant attempt to coldsmoke in florida w/out using a running fridge from what i was told by a sausage maker down here but he couldnt speak great english and this is the gist of how he explained to me . the only thing i left out was using an air pump to pump the smoke through the pipe to the fridge. remember the fridge is on and set to 17c
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Post by HamnCheese » Fri May 16, 2014 16:34

Hi John,

Is this the correct interpretation of what you were told to do?

John said - "I bought a fridge, drilled a hole in side, made smoke generator, and pipe smoke into fridge.

- I bought 2 small computer fans for fridge to dry (was going to put sausage on top shelf fan facing down on bottom shelf to not dry too fast).

Day 1: salted pork butt for 1 day in fridge,

Day 2: grind w/ spices and prague powder, put in fridge at 17c

Day 2: Smoke for 2 hours in smoker fridge.

Days 3 and 4: Smoke for 2 hours in smoker fridge

Days 4 through 16: Dry in Fridge w/fans at 17c."



There is excellent information already available on this site for new sausage makers...and safe cold smoking.

Here are links to some important basic information:
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... eat-safety
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/meat-sm ... ld-smoking

It's wonderful that you're interested in this hobby and I'm sure that some of the more seasoned members will direct you to other articles. Take the time to do some reading and some studying before you jump into the deep end of the pool!

It may seem like a lot to digest (no pun intended) but it is a whole lot easier than telling your wife, "You Were Right"!

Lynn
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Post by slickric » Sat May 17, 2014 02:32

yes what you typed was what i was told, except i forgot to add that i have a blower , sending smoke from smoke generator to fridge through pipe. i had already read the links u posted and many others and no definitive answer from any websites to what i am doing , no answers from any sausage companies i have called . most are clueless since the almost all hot smoke between 155 and 225f. or they tell me their coldsmoked products are a family secret and cant give me specifics on temp , time and if this fridge system will work. my wife says , of course they are not going to tell you because their canadian bacon is 15.99 per lb and now you can buy and make for 1.99 lb. i have a friend who was nominated for a james beard award and even he cant tell me anything about it cause its foreign to him. is anyone out there able to help me w/ this since where i live never gets cold enough outside to coldsmoke, so i came up w/ the fridge idea (remenber the fridge is on and i control the temp. i just need to know if this is safe and to go w/ what this hungarian sausage guy told me to do. what temp , how long to smoke, haw many days to dry, do i keep pork butt whole and inject w/ liquid cure or cut into smaller pieces for more surface area??????????????????? any help would be appreciated thanks
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Post by sambal badjak » Sat May 17, 2014 07:05

I am just a beginner, but have done a little cold smoking.
It is hot were I am, so I use a cold smoke generator and I try to smoke at night.
What are your day and night time temperatures?

I assume you are using a working fridge to smoke in. Do you have enough ventilation in there? You don't want the smoke to sit still. Still or standing smoke gives a bit of a bitter taste.

I think another point is what are you trying to make?
You can use any sort of recipe for fresh sausage and add nitrite and smoke, as long as afterwards you bring the sausages up to a safe internal temperature.
It becomes a whole different ball game if you are trying to make salami or other dried-smoked sausages! In that case, I won't give any advice as I know way too little about this and have decided not to attempt this for some years to come, althoug I believe some things are possible using umai bags
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Post by Chuckwagon » Sat May 17, 2014 08:39

Hi Guys,

When do we use "cold smoke"? It`s not the choice for a "cured-cooked-smoked" type sausage, although further drying and smoking of a sausage of this type can produce a "semi-dry-cured" product. Cold smoking at 70% to 80% humidity within the temperature range of 18° - 22°C. (66° - 72°F.) is ideal for the smoking of all raw, fermented sausages which are not subject to heat treatment. It should be remembered that cold-smoking is also a "drying" process and in Europe, the upper limit of this procedure never exceeds 22°C. or 72°F. Cold smoking is a more refined procedure and has some rules with it. Please study it a little before you use it - then use it for the right reason - cold smoking raw, fermented meats and sausages. For making "cured-cooked-smoked" type sausages, I would really only recommend using a hot-smoker unless you head up an industrial organization. You can always use a little portable hot-plate to burn the sawdust in a stainless steel bowl. If you make sausage that you poach, be sure to use sodium nitrite Cure #1 and only a level teaspoon per five pounds of meat. Smoke the sausages slowly... raising the hot plate (smokehouse temperature) by only 2 degrees each 20-30 minutes or so, until the sausage (internal meat temp) reaches 155° F.

Sausage makers smoke meat principally for three reasons. To give their product a golden-brown color, take on characteristic smoky flavor, and enhance antibacterial properties, resulting in longer shelf life. As most consumers prefer sausages without mold on the surface, smoking is an age-old favorite process because it impedes the development of mold. However, because mold may develop during the first stages of production, it is recommended that smoking take place early also. And because fermentation takes place at specific temperatures in dry-cured products, it is important that the temperature of the smoke does not interfere with the process of fermentation. On the other hand, it must not be so cold that the proper removal of humidity is inhibited. The ideal conditions will fall within 70% to 80% humidity at the temperature range of 18° - 22°C. (66° - 72°F.). Cold smoking is always performed with thin smoke having good ventilation for the removal of excess moisture. Thick, concentrated smudge can produce bitterness. The process is "off and on" - a delicate "drying while smoking" procedure intermittently discontinued for several hours at a time.

Cold smoking has historically been done during the winter months and smoking at only 52-71° F (12-22° C), from 1 day to two weeks, applying thin smoke with intermittent breaks in between, is one of the oldest preservation methods known. Yet, with high summer temperatures, only relatively recently has it been possible to cold smoke meat during all the months of the year because of modern air-conditioning and refrigeration. Oh, and yes, there`s one more terrific benefit of cold smoking. It penetrates deeply inside of the meat. You must watch those temperatures though. Fish starts to cook at 85° F. That means that the beautiful salmon fillet you caught last weekend, begins to cook at only 29.4° C. Clearly, the smoke in your smoker must not exceed this temperature.

Cold smoking also controls the uniform loss of moisture as the product dries. In all areas the total weight loss falls within 5-20% depending largely on the smoking time. Again, it is important to remember that cold-smoking is NOT a continuous process. The smoke (no matter how thin) must be stopped for prolonged periods while fresh air is allowed into the smoker.

"Cold smoked meats prevent or slow down the spoilage of fats, which increases their shelf life. The product is drier and saltier with a more pronounced smoky flavor and very long shelf life. The color varies from yellow to dark brown on the surface and dark red inside. Cold smoked products are simply not submitted to the cooking process in any way. Stan Marianski said, "If you want to cold smoke your meats, bear in mind that with the exception of people living in areas with a cold climate like Alaska, it will have to be done in the winter months just as it was done 500 years ago."

Because cold-smoked meat and fish products are not cooked, cold smoking is an entirely contrasting process from hot-smoking as the heat source is remote and the smoke is "piped" into the smokehouse from several feet away, giving the smoke time to cool down. Most often, the cold-smokehouse is elevated higher than the heat source, or the smoke is forced inside by a fan.


Cold-smoked products must contain nitrite or nitrate/nitrite cures to be safe because even using thin smoke, oxygen is cut off and most obligate anaerobic bacteria, some facultative anaerobic bacteria, and even some microaerophile bacteria may thrive. Never cold-smoke fresh sausage or any meat product without using a curing agent.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by slickric » Sat May 17, 2014 13:51

so, r u saying not to coldsmoke porkbuts and sausage, ru saying i can get just as good flavor by hotsmoking at a low temp so the fat does not all melt hence the sausage gets dry. i mean i could do that this is what i have had for 10 yrs
http://www.cookshack.com/store/Smokers_ ... el-SM009-2

if u guys want me to do this and i need to get pork to 155, what temp would u hot smoke at start ing to finish and what wood do u prefer. not one person has recommended to coldsmoke so i guess i will hotsmoke
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Post by Tasso » Sat May 17, 2014 18:16

slickric, I think your refrigerated cold-smoking setup sounds very interesting. I would like to try cold-smoking eventually, but I'm in no rush to try. I want to get good at hot smoking sausages first, and make sure that I'm fully comfortable with the cold-smoking safety concerns before I try that.

As I understand it, cold-smoking is normally applied to certain styles of fermented sausages. Non-fermented smoked sausages are most often hot-smoked. I'm a newbie, so I could be wrong, but that's what I've gathered from the reading I've done.

What type of sausage were you planning to make? Have you got a recipe picked out yet?

BTW, I'll be using my Cookshack Amerique for my hot-smoking. The process should be similar to your SM009. I wish it had draft controls. I find it difficult to keep the heat level low in my Amerique. I think it'll take a lot of monitoring and opening the door now and then to keep it from getting too hot for sausage.
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Post by sawhorseray » Sat May 17, 2014 22:55

slickric wrote:if u guys want me to do this and i need to get pork to 155, what temp would u hot smoke at start ing to finish and what wood do u prefer. not one person has recommended to coldsmoke so i guess i will hotsmoke
Hey Slick, I'm not seeing any dampers or vents on that smoker. Is that correct? I start smoking sausage by pre-heating my smoker temp to 100° with the vents wide open, the sausage hanging from smoking sticks, and allow to dry for one hour. Then raise the smoker temp to 130°, close top and bottom vents to 1/3 open, and put on a pan of moistened wood chips, apple and hickory are most commonly used. Raise the smoker temperature 2-3 degrees every 15-20 minutes until you reach a smoker temp of 165°, don't go higher than that and don't raise the smoker temp any faster than the 2-3 degrees over the recommended time period. I pull my sausage off when the internal temp hits 152° and toss them right into a sink full of ice water for 15-20 minutes. Some folks smoke their sausage for a few hours and finish cooking them in the oven or in a hot water bath, both at right around 170°. You never want to exceed that temp in whatever you are cooking the sausage in or the fat will liquefy and run out of the sausage casings leaving you with a product more akin to sawdust than sausage. Your writing style brings to mind the poetry of ee cummings. :wink: RAY
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Post by slickric » Sat May 17, 2014 23:07

i want to get porkbutts brine them for 7-10 days in salt, spice, cure h2o bath in fridge. dryrub them w/ spices salt and curing agent after that and coldsmoke for 2-3 days (3hrs per day) then let dry out in fridge for 2 weeks then eat. REMEMBER THE FRIDGE WILL BE ON THE WHOLE TIME 50f to simulate northern weather, i live in florida too hot too humid. i was going to run 2 computer fans the whole time (2-3 weeks) use a fish pump to pump the smoke through the tube i drilled in the fridge and put silica dioxide on another shelf to absorb moisture. i want the taste u get from cold smoked canadian bacon(pork loin) where the meat is kind of dried out thus more flavor compared to brine, dryrub, hot smoke to 155. are you guys starting to get what im trying to do, i think it will work but i need temps to keep fridge at, thickness of butt, does or can i mix prague powder w/ h20 and inject and brine prior to smoking and how many days to dry butts in fridge or sausages. maybe this could start a cold smoke revolution where u do it in a running fridge where u control the cold temp and air w/ computer fans. i think most people thought i was putting it in the fridge and not having the fridge on. i have been smoking for yrs and am not a rookie and im a pharmicist so i have chemistry skills so im ready to dive into this coldsmoke thing but want to be safe, remember there is a hungarian guy that gave me this idea and he does it and it works and tastes great but his english is not too good so i couldnt get all the specifics please if anyone has feedback on these ?s pls feel free to help thanks
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Post by Chuckwagon » Sun May 18, 2014 08:46

Sawhorse ol' bud,
Those are pretty good instructions you've written up. I hope you don't mind me copying your post and placing a copy in the "Beginner's Section" also. Lots of beginners need to read that information. Good going pal!

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by Gulyás » Sun May 18, 2014 11:23

Hi Slick,

I'm wondering if a regular refrigerator is capable to keep the temp. cool enough to cold smoke at the place you live. That's because beside the ambient temp. you also create heat, by burning wood.
I cold smoked 5 weeks ago, the temp. was 46 to 55 F. (8 to 13 C.), it was a rainy/humid day, and had a hard time keeping the temp. below the recommended range.
You must have air movement by keeping went(s) open.
This was my setup, I used a Bradley smoker, the smoke generator separated, to cool the smoke.
I had lots of condensation.

Image

Image

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Ps. They are Hungarian sausages.

I wish you luck, I'll be watching to see if it works out for you.

Joe. (also born Hungarian)
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Post by Baconologist » Sun May 18, 2014 11:49

slickric,

I do a lot of cold smoking, the flavor is much different from that of hot smoking.
I use different methods depending on the particular sausage/meat and what exactly I'm trying to achieve.

It can be as simple as cold smoking fo 10-12 hours and then gently finishing the sausage to safe temperature by poaching or "steaming."

Forum member Snagman has built a refrigerated cold smoker......
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=5710

A couple of Stan Marianski's old-fashioned cold smoked sausage recipes to get you started....
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... old-smoked
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... old-smoked

Best of luck with your smoker!
Godspeed!

Bob
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Post by Chuckwagon » Sun May 18, 2014 12:00

Slickric, you wrote:
so, r u saying not to coldsmoke porkbuts and sausage, ru saying i can get just as good flavor by hotsmoking at a low temp so the fat does not all melt hence the sausage gets dry. i mean i could do that this is what i have had for 10 yrs
Of course not. All I'm saying is that when you smoke meat, you cut off oxygen. Bacteria just love an atmosphere of no oxygen, low smoking temperature, and a nuitrition source. Please be sure to use sodium nitrites and sodium nitrates. I'm just the guy trying to keep everyone healthy! :lol:

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