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Baconologist
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Re: More Information on Nitrate/Nitrite CURES

Post by Baconologist » Sat Aug 23, 2014 02:48

el Ducko wrote: Cure #2
This cure is a blend of salt and sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate. The salt is added as a carrier and to make it easier to measure. In the United States it is dyed pink, so chefs and the home user will not mistake it for salt or sugar. It goes by several different brand and generic names, but they all have the same formula of 89.75% salt, and 6.25% sodium nitrite, and 4% sodium nitrate (1 pound of salt, plus 1 ounce of sodium nitrite, plus .64 ounce of sodium nitrate).
For what it's worth, here in America, there are at least three different Cure #2 formulas.

6.25% nitrite and 1% nitrate. (SausageMaker)
5.67% nitrite and 3.63% nitrate. (Butcher & Packer)
6.25% nitrate and 4% nitrate. (Allied Kenco)
Godspeed!

Bob
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Post by el Ducko » Sat Aug 23, 2014 02:52

Thanks for the good info, Bob.
What a mess! I sure hope they put the concentrations on the label.
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Post by spud » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:18

Guys
This is meant as a comment not a criticism
Here's a simple task for us all.

Head back to the start of this Subject.
Count posts that have zero to do with the Base Subject.

As I said a comment only, if I offend I'm sorry.
For all the beginners, can we keep to the subject....we feel intimidated as it is.

Spud OZ
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Post by Shuswap » Sat Aug 23, 2014 14:25

Baconologist wrote:For what it's worth, here in America, there are at least three different Cure #2 formulas.

6.25% nitrite and 1% nitrate. (SausageMaker)
5.67% nitrite and 3.63% nitrate. (Butcher & Packer)
6.25% nitrate and 4% nitrate. (Allied Kenco)
Bob, those seem to be significant differences. Duk, our chemical engineer, would know better than me. Are they to be applied differently or used the same way? :?:
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Post by el Ducko » Sat Aug 23, 2014 22:59

Shuswap wrote:
Baconologist wrote:For what it's worth, here in America, there are at least three different Cure #2 formulas.

6.25% nitrite and 1% nitrate. (SausageMaker)
5.67% nitrite and 3.63% nitrate. (Butcher & Packer)
6.25% nitrate and 4% nitrate. (Allied Kenco)
Bob, those seem to be significant differences. Duk, our chemical engineer, would know better than me. Are they to be applied differently or used the same way? :?:
I'd sure do the calculations before using 'em. ...but then, I always do the calculations anyway. (Into each life a little math must fall.) As you know, add up the whole recipe's weight (if you are working in volumes, weigh 'em as you add 'em), then calculate how much cure you'll need.

Start off with the formula
  • ppm nitrite = 1,000,000. * (0.0625 %nitrite) * (gms cure) / { (grams rest of recipe + grams cure) }
For you folks who don't care for algebra, solving for grams of cure added works out to
  • gm cure = (ppm nitrite) (gm rest of recipe) / {(1,000,000.) * (0.0625 % nitrite) - 1.0}
So, for example, if you wanted 150 ppm of nitrite in a recipe that weighs out to 1.238 kg of mince plus spices plus whatever, you would need
  • gm cure = (150) * (1,238 gm rest-of-recipe) / { (1,000,000.) * (0.0625 %nitrite) - 1.0 }
    = 2.97 grams cure.
For the nitrate, just plug in percent of nitrate and the amount of cure that you just calculated, into that top formula. In this case, for Sausage Maker`s 1% nitrate,
  • ppm nitrate = 1,000,000. * (0.01 %nitrate) * (2.97 gm cure)/{ (1,238 grams rest of recipe) + (2.97 grams cure) }
    = 23.9 ppm nitrate
Respect those curly brackets in the denominator, now, folks. Ignoring them will throw you off, but maybe not too badly. However, if you get a nonsensical answer, chances are that you didn't strictly follow 'em.

...great question, Phil: why the differences? It would appear that they were all formulated for different sausage recipes, for different curing times. Bob or anyone... care to comment? For you fermented sausage types, this is really good stuff to know.
Duk
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Post by SalP » Sun Aug 24, 2014 18:09

Made the Breakfast Sausage and Gravy yesterday and this morning. The sausage was a little bit salty, I believe because the Pork Butt had a 12% solution. Once added to the gravy though no other salt was needed. I should have thinned the gravy out, it really thickened once I plated it.

None the less it was very good and tasty.
Just didn't get around to making the sourdough starter, I am going to get that going today.

Next up tonight is the "Hip-Shot" hamburgers.

Enjoy the pictures.

Pork Butt
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Pork Butt Cubed and ready for the chill
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Grinding 3/8" plate
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Grind
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Mixed
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Sausage N Gravy
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Plated
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Post by grasshopper » Sun Aug 24, 2014 18:27

WOW! You nailed it. Can't get any better than that. Hip shot burgers are tasty. Good luck
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Post by Shuswap » Sun Aug 24, 2014 18:41

SalP - looks mighty good! Even though biscuits and gravy are not a Canadian thing I am going to make it to use my "chunky breakfast sausage" made at the start of this course along with some chili and pizza. DW took to biscuits and gravy on our visits to your great state :wink:
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Post by SalP » Sun Aug 24, 2014 20:37

I am getting ready to brine the pork loin for Canadian Bacon. I have a 3.5lb pork loin. From Chuckwagons Smoked pork loin, it is using a 10 lb pork loin. Since i have about a 1/3 of thw weight then i should divide the ingrediants by a 1/3. The original recipe has:
10 lbs Pork Loin
3T Cure #1
4 qts Ice water
3/4C Sugar
2T Mapleline
1C Salt
I figured 1/3 of this is:
1T Cure #1
1.2 qts Ice water
.225C (1/4C) Sugar
.6T Mapleline
.3C (1/3C) Salt
And I would inject 1/3 lb of the brine.

Do my figures look correct?
Yes they do ~ (CW)
Could I make the full amount for the 10 lbs and just use 1/3 of the brine?
Absolutely! (CW)
Thanks for everyones help. This is a great way to learn and have feedback.
Sal, those photos are magnificent! Are you a professional photographer? Your projects look just exquisite and delicious. Good going pal! Nice work. (CW)

Sal
Last edited by SalP on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by el Ducko » Sun Aug 24, 2014 22:55

SalP wrote:... Since i have about a 1/3 of thw weight then i should divide the ingrediants by a 1/3. ...
And I would inject 1/3 lb of the brine.

Do my figures look correct?
Could I make the full amount for the 10 lbs and just use 1/3 of the brine?
Looks good to me, Sal. ...but then, I'm just a duck.

But seriously, the numbers are fine. I would check, before I mix anything, that 1.2 quarts of water, minus 1/3 pound of water, covers your pork loin in whatever container you plan to use. If it does, great.

If it doesn't cover, however, I would fill with water until the loin is covered, weigh out the water, then mix based on a bit more than that amount of brine. You want a slight excess of brine so the meat will be covered, so round it up a bit to the next easy-to-measure amount. ...say, if you require just under 3 quarts of water to cover, mix up { (3 quarts) / (4 quarts) } or .75 of the brine recipe. Inject the same 10% amount, which is still 1/3 lb of brine. That 10% figure is important because it's 10% of the meat weight, not the brine, and that's what establishes the concentration in the meat.

An ocean of brine would be fine. An excess amount of brine is not important, because it is discarded. Not enough brine, though, means that the meat won't be covered, and the mix-plus-loin won't "equalize."
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Post by SalP » Mon Aug 25, 2014 01:04

Thanks Duk. After looking at the pork loin, the amount of brine and the vessel to hold them. I am going to use what's in the recipe.

Sal
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Post by SalP » Mon Aug 25, 2014 01:07

The Hip Shot Hamburgers turned out very good and tasty.
Since it's Hatch Chile time I added some before forming the burgers.

I know that 5 lbs of ground meat in the basic KitchenAid mixer is max, anything more and it would overflow. I had to put on the splatter shield and hold it down while the meat and ingrediants were dancing together.

Let me know if I am putting too many pictures up.

Getting ready to brine the pork loin. These last two projects were almost instant gratification. Now have to wait to enjoy.

Grinding
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Mixed
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Pressed and ready
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Grill
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Meal
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Sal
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Post by grasshopper » Mon Aug 25, 2014 01:39

Looks great! I started out with a kitchen aid and it works great. I only changed when the amounts got larger. On the pork loin I fillet them so they are under 2 inches in height. That way I didn't have to inject them. I only brine them in the solution. This was OK with CW. Greater mines then mine would have to chime in before it is OK.
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Post by sfisher » Tue Aug 26, 2014 07:13

Chuckwagon, I just joined the forum can you tell me how to join project KB.
Thanks Steve

You're IN Steve... welcome aboard! ~CW~
Last edited by sfisher on Tue Sep 02, 2014 07:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by cogboy » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:41

sfisher wrote:Chuckwagon, I just joined the forum can you tell me how to join project KB.
Thanks Steve
Chuckwagon is absent at the moment but hopefully will return soon !!!!
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