Using frozen fresh pork for salami

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Indaswamp
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Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by Indaswamp » Mon Aug 24, 2020 05:23

Is there any concern using frozen pork for salami? I know that the ice crystals will rupture the cell walls in the meat and the water holding capacity (WHC) of the meat will be less. But since salami will be dried is this a positive? I have also heard that fresh pork should have a pH around 5.9 and that as it ages, the pH will rise above pH6-6.4. How will that affect the quality of the salami? Thank you in advance. New to salami making, but have been making cured meats and sausages for over 20 years. Just started with salami in march of 2020. First two salamis were a success, pepperoni and genoa stuffed in beef middles. Mild case hardening, but that is to be expected in a home made drying chamber.

Net up is Calabian Sopressatta, Nduja, and some Cacciatore Salami....maybe a couple Genoa if I still have room. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by Bob K » Mon Aug 24, 2020 13:21

Actually you should be using frozen pork. Even though it is rare in this day and age it is still recommended for the home sausage maker to use certified pork or treat it to kill trichinella spiralis. Freezing is the method used for uncooked pork.
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by Indaswamp » Mon Aug 24, 2020 13:55

Thanks for the link Bob k., I learned some new stuff on trichinea. But my post was more toward how the cell structure changes upon freezing and how that impacts salami quality and if it is a concern or not.
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by Bob K » Mon Aug 24, 2020 14:28

No freezing does not effect the quality of the salami. I am not sure how it effects cell structure other than bursting cells if it not frozen quickly. You will notice drying times and weight loss %'s to change if using fresh meat as it contains more water. Unless you use an Aw meter the weight loss method we use to obtain a shelf stable product is based on the percentage of water in the product
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by Indaswamp » Sun Aug 30, 2020 04:11

Thanks for the reply Bob K, much appreciated.
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by IskraTS11 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 19:56

Yes, using non-frozen pork could be harmful as it's a type of meat that can often host tons of parasites (that's one of the main reasons why pork is banned in the Jewish and Muslim faith: the meat would quickly rot and gather all sorts of Pokémon under the Middle Eastern climate and make everyone sick, which led to a total ban on its consumption)
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by wasuky » Tue Sep 08, 2020 13:50

What about using ground frozen meat? I froze 4kg of ground meat (70%meat and 30%fat). I have no experience in making cured sausages but I have been doing some tests by making very small batches of sausages and I noticed that the final product is not nice. With 30%/40% of loss, the meat tends to fall apart which makes it impossible to thin-slice it.

I thought maybe it was due to mixing problems but last night I made a 300gr sausages using the same frozen meat. I mixed throughly but it felt like it didn't want to get together.

I have to say that it is very hot where I live and meat gets unfrozen quickly. It ends up losing a lot of liquids and being pale. I don't know if this could cause binding issues.
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by Indaswamp » Thu Sep 17, 2020 03:44

I'm no expert on salami, but have been making both fresh and smoke sausages for 20+ years...

From what I know, it is best to use whole muscles and grind it yourself when making salami. Reason being is that the interior of the whole muscle is assumed to be sterile (healthy animals have immune systems and this eliminates or significantly reduces pathogens) and the clock starts when you mince the meat. You want to work quickly with the steps to minimize the time before you add your starter culture. Once the meat is minced, war is declared by all bacteria, oxygen is introduced and bacterial growth will occur.

Pre-ground meat may be fine for some fresh or smoke sausages, but no way I would take the chance with salami....But that is from my limited knowledge making salamis...
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by Butterbean » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:58

I agree with what Indaswamp said. You just don't know what might be in pre-ground meat or how its been handled so the possibility of it causing problems is real.
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by wasuky » Thu Sep 17, 2020 22:32

Well... I ask about frozen meat because of this.

I got a hog a few months ago (it went from the farm to my kitchen). I immediately broke it down and froze it. A few days later I started cleaning each piece and cutting to start grinding it (after I finished cleaning the meat was 100% thawed). Right after I cleaned it I started grinding using a 4,5mm disc and then separated in 1kg bags and back to the freezer.

Now I have to say that when I say "I cleaned it" I don't mean that I separated 100% meat from fat like a surgery. I would say that each 1kg bag had 20-30% of fat (I separated the back fat and the other muscles outer fat but I left the fat inside muscles).

Anyway I used 300gr of that ground meat I had in the back of the freezer to try to make a mix of dried chorizo but I got an odd result and I have no idea why (maybe the 2 times frozen/thawed meat, maybe the recipe, maybe my non-tested drying chamber).
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I used:

300gr of ground meat (I would say 70/30)
1/2 fresh garlic clove (I saw this in a Spanish recipe)
2gr of sugar
7gr of salt
0,9gr of curing salt #2
2 teaspoons of smoked sweet Paprika

I mixed everything for 15min but I never felt like it got sticky, in fact it felt kind of loose. I stuffed everything in hog casings, fermented for 2 days in a place of the house that stays at 25-27 °C and 85-95% H and then placed it in the curing chamber at 12-14°C and 70-75%H.

The 2nd and 3rd week I noticed the casing was a bit greasy and sticky. I cleaned it with water and vinegar and put it back in. The other 2 weeks left the casing felt dry.

After 1month it only lost 25% I cut it open the 5th week and that's what I got. One thing I noticed before I cut it was that if I pressed and slided my fingers against the sausage, the casing slided too (it was obviously not attached to the meat).

Now... a few things I think about that make me think "oh.. maybe thats the problem":

1- Maybe the ground meat I used didn't have 30% of fat as I thought. Maybe it had more than 30%... maybe a lot more. Maybe due to my inexperience I just can't estimate the meat/fat ratio.

2- Maybe the fresh garlic spoiled the whole thing as I read it somewhere I could happen (I read it after I stuffed it).

3- My non-tested curing chamber is a broken old fridge I fixed up and set to work as curing chamber. Happens that my regular fridge stopped cooling as it should during the first 3 weeks the sausage was in the curing chamber, so my family started opening the door a lot. As soon as you open the door, the humidity goes up like crazy to infinity and beyond, but once you close the door it takes 2-4min to go down to 70-75. Maybe the opening/closing ended up spoling the sausage.

4- Maybe the fact that the meat was ground with a considerable % of fat in it, caused a seal on the meat preventing it from drying.

5- Maybe the 2 frozen/unfrozen caused it to lose lots of liquids and proteins preventing it to bind and dry.
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by bluc » Fri Sep 18, 2020 04:09

Im very much a newbie but it looks like its under mixed. I have done fresh sausage that looks like that, crumbly kinda dry from a quick mix and some that is like a frankfurt very dense from mixing till very sticky. I find the smell change also from fresh meat to the distinct sausage smell.
My money is on mixing..the mince still looks like invidual particles to me not an even blend. but as I said I am very much a newbie
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Re: Using frozen fresh pork for salami

Post by wasuky » Fri Sep 18, 2020 07:11

Actually I thought the same thing "maybe I did not mix enough" so I made another 300gr sausage using the same ground meat from the same bag. I mixed for I don't know how long waiting for the mix to get sticky but it never happened (that made me think of the freeze/unfreeze process and the ton of lost liquid). The result was the same so maybe it had nothing to do with the mixing.

Cheers!
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