Sausage fermented but has dark spots

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 00:13

I made some summer sausage sticks using 32mm hog casings. I used the right amount of cure 1 and used LHP culture. Let me first say the culture is about a year and a half old but I just made some landjager and it worked. I had this happen before and didn't know why... When the culture was less than 6 mths old

I fermented the sausage at 95 degrees F for about 14 hrs. Most of it turned pink/red and I took a pH reading. It dropped to around 4.8. However I had spots that I could see on the outside under the casing that were a brownish color. I cut out a spot and it was a pH of 5.2 or higher. Why would I have those spots? I know I used enough cure. Is the sausage OK to cook/eat? I'm assuming it didn't ferment but cured since the meat was brownish and cured meat usually turns.

Post by **redzed** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 05:15

Not sure whether something in a 32mm can be called a "summer sausage". But to the question about the brown spots. It might be lack of nitrite, inadequate mixing or setting period. How long into the curing stage was the 5.2 pH reading taken? Did you also take a reading of the section that looked OK?

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 16:09

Do you add ascorbic acid

?

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 17:48

Well its the summer sausage recipe. I didn't use ascorbic acid. I mixed it good and as far as setting it was in for 16 hrs. The phone of the dark spots read 5.2 which is as high as the straps would go... The other was 4.8

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 18:36

Does the dark spots only occur under the surface of casings or are they also appearent inside of the sausage as dark areas ?

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 18:59

Only under the sausage and only before I cooked them. Once I smoked/cooked them I cut into some and do not see the dark spots. That's what made me think they just didn't ferment in those spots.

Post by **Bob K** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 19:03

I think a pic, if possible, would be a huge help.

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 19:05

Bob, I failed to take one before I cooked them....I can take one now that they're cooked if that will help.

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 19:24

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 19:45

Checkerfred, I´d really try to put my teeth into one of those sausages - looks good! And beautiful smoke color!!
But could you imagine meat color being a bit stronger? (I could

)

As you know, the LHP contains Pediococcus pentosaceus and Pediococcus acidilactici but no Staphyloccochi to enhance color or taste -and well, there wouldn´t be much time for that anyway, given the speed of the LHP. Did you ever try to make summer sausage with T-SPX ?

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 20:06

Igor Duńczyk wrote:Checkerfred, I´d really try to put my teeth into one of those sausages - looks good! And beautiful smoke color!!
But could you imagine meat color being a bit stronger? (I could )

As you know, the LHP contains Pediococcus pentosaceus and Pediococcus acidilactici but no Staphyloccochi to enhance color or taste -and well, there wouldn´t be much time for that anyway, given the speed of the LHP. Did you ever try to make summer sausage with T-SPX ?

Part of it is the terrible picture from my cell phone...I'll post one in a few minutes with my good camera. I've never tried T-SPX. I have only 1-2 recipes that call for it that I want to try and I'm afraid if I buy it, I won't use much and it will go to waste. I still have a 1/4 packet of the LHP and i've used it quite a bit. I'd love to know the difference in taste of that culture so I may just have to break down and buy some to try. I think that culture calls for using cure 2 since it's a slow fermentation, correct?

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 20:51

Here's some better pics:

summer sausage sticks (I do know ss is usually put into bigger casings, I just wanted something smaller than a 2 1/2" diameter stick that I could just snack on here or there.)

semi dry landjager:

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 21:00

checkerfred wrote:I've never tried T-SPX. I have only 1-2 recipes that call for it that I want to try and I'm afraid if I buy it, I won't use much and it will go to waste. ... I think that culture calls for using cure 2 since it's a slow fermentation, correct?

It may also turn out that once you try the T-SPX your remaining LHP may go to waste

Yes, I understand that it may feel pretty unsafe to deviate from a seemingly proven recipe, but just a few weeks ago me and a couple of members had some exchanges about a certain culture recommended by a certain author, but which, according to practical experience among users of this forum simply isn´t a very good choice when compared to the tasty and aromatic results you´ll obtain by swopping to T-SPX instead.

The LHP is a reliable fast culture, ideal for summer sausage or pepperoni, but because it lacks a staphyloccochi strain it won´t give you an optimal color formation, just as many of the enzymatic processes that provide aroma formation and protection against rancidity will be unsupported by this culture. The T-SPX is a slower culture than LHP but if you ferment at 95 degrees F (or even a bit higher) I am sure that you won´t complain about lack of speed.

Only cure#2 for T-SPX ?
I have often used it with cure#1 and never found any reason to complain about the results. Though cure#2 may be just right if you want to make long matured italian style salami.

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 21:25

Hi CFred - we should have a chatroom! (...there IS one at this forum -right??)

Now - if I was to take pics of those sausages I would opt for a more neutrally colored background than your nice blue surface which may (just may) do funny things with the automatic white balance. But it sure does not diminish my "toothing-that-sausage" feeling....

However : be ready for some afternoon spanking:
A cooked Landjäger

Hahaha - what a joke!!! Just pray that I don´t show this to my German friends!
OK - it probably is as tasty as I may suspect from your pic´ but in my perhaps too narrow-minded sausage world the REAL Landjäger IS and WILL ALWAYS BE a dried fermented sausage which may (just may) be heated to slight denaturization at 120 - 130 degrees F.
Of course - there are variations - but you ought to take a shot at the "real" Landjäger some day!

PS: You managed the shape well - just try to get it more rectangular next time - and a bit longer cold smoking to obtain the right deeeep brown color.
Then you can even fool a German

checkerfred · Post by **checkerfred** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 22:04

Igor Duńczyk wrote:Hi CFred - we should have a chatroom! (...there IS one at this forum -right??)

Now - if I was to take pics of those sausages I would opt for a more neutrally colored background than your nice blue surface which may (just may) do funny things with the automatic white balance. But it sure does not diminish my "toothing-that-sausage" feeling....

However : be ready for some afternoon spanking:
A cooked Landjäger Hahaha - what a joke!!! Just pray that I don´t show this to my German friends!
OK - it probably is as tasty as I may suspect from your pic´ but in my perhaps too narrow-minded sausage world the REAL Landjäger IS and WILL ALWAYS BE a dried fermented sausage which may (just may) be heated to slight denaturization at 120 - 130 degrees F.
Of course - there are variations - but you ought to take a shot at the "real" Landjäger some day!

PS: You managed the shape well - just try to get it more rectangular next time - and a bit longer cold smoking to obtain the right deeeep brown color.
Then you can even fool a German

Thanks Igor. I'm all for chatting. Are you on facebook by any chance? If so, shoot me a pm here and I will look you up. The pictures, yes the blue isn't the best color, but the white balance is good. I'm a photographer by trade and definitely know my white balance. I just didn't take the time to setup a nice neutral setting since I was just going for a quick shot to show the texture and that there weren't any brown spots in the sausage after cooking.

I do realize that landjager is a dry fermented sausage and I understand that the taste is probably different that what a true landjager is. I've had landjager from a sausage kitchen in MI, Kern's I believe is the name, and it didn't appear to be dry cured either. Matter of fact, I'm not sure it was even smoked but rather just fermented and poached. It had a good taste, kind of like summer sausage, but looked nothing like what I've seen others post on landjager. Also, on the Marianski website, the recipe does give instructions for a semi-dry version. http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... /landjager

I noticed someone else scalded me for saying summer sausage links because summer sausage is typically put in larger casings. However, when I refer to the sausage name, I'm mainly referring to the spices used. I don't think I'd use a meat like venison in a true dry cure sausage either.

I haven't tackled a dry cure sausage because I feel I need to get my process down pat with other types first. Also, I do not have a fermentation/drying chamber and our climate isn't idea for doing these types of sausage without one. So instead of just sticking with summer sausage and basic cooked/fresh sausages, I'm trying some different things. I know this probably irks some of you guys that are season pro's but I'm still learning this hobby. Not to mention I live in the deep south of the US and I'm not as versed/exposed to sausages like you guys.