Smoked Salami pH question

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fullysideways
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Smoked Salami pH question

Post by fullysideways » Tue Jun 28, 2022 00:00

I made some smoked salami a couple days ago using the recipe below. I only used .2% Dextrose and .1% table sugar. I 'cold' smoked the salami for 3 hours right after I stuffed it but it was a hot summer day so was about 100 degrees in the smoker, then I let the salami ferment in the kitchen at 75 degrees and about 68 at night. After 18 hours the pH was down to 5.13 and I put it in the chamber at 55 degrees and about 85% humidity. I checked the test portion of salami today and the pH was down to 5.01. I'm wondering if that's ok given that the T-SPX culture has S. Xylosus in it which the documentation states is mostly inactive below a pH of 5.0. The S. Xylosus is supposed to add to the flavor and color so I'm wondering if I should put even less sugar in the next recipe or perhaps find a way to cold smoke it at a lower temperature so the pH doesn't drop so much? Or perhaps I am just worrying too much? I really want a nice smoked salami that isn't too acidic and has a really nice mild flavor.


Recipe:
Pork shoulder weight 2102g. ( 65% pork shoulder, 35% pork belly )
Kosher Salt 3% 63
Dextrose 0.2% 4.2
Sugar 0.1% 2.1
Cure #2 0.25% 5.2
Black pepper 8.4
Garlic, fresh 7.35
T-SPX culture 1.05
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StefanS
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by StefanS » Tue Jun 28, 2022 22:35

IMHO - what size of casing did you use? (that question is related to Cure#2 used in your recipe).
3 grams of sugars even with T-SPX will drop pH around 5. Staphylococcuses will work also below 5.0 (around 4.78 :) ) or they will go to dormant stage and when pH will return above 5.0 they will work.(and your salami won't be acidic because during maturing Ph will go much above 5.0) So no problem here. My another concern is your approach to cold smoking right away after staffing. As you stated - temp. jump more above and that case humidity is failing down so there can be problem with "dry ring". If it happen that your intern moisture during maturing period won't be migrating outside in right amount. In other words - outside layer will be dry, inside and center can be mushy. Much better results you should achieve if you will do cold smoking after fermentation and initial maturing in chamber.
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by fullysideways » Wed Jun 29, 2022 03:35

Thanks StefanS, I used 65mm collagen casings. Also, right after smoking coated the salamis with a mold-600 solution and put the them in a glass baking dish covered in plastic wrap so it was very high humidity. I'm hoping this helped prevent the outside from drying out.
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by redzed » Wed Jun 29, 2022 16:17

Your pH numbers are fine, I don't think that you will have any sour notes in the flavour. You had fast fermentation during the smoking because of the high temp. That probably affected the colour and final flavour. Fermentation at higher temps also results in a slightly lower pH, regardless of the amount of sugars. Next time ferment at 68-70 and 90%RH, cold smoke for 8-10 hours at 72 or less for 8-10 hours.
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by fullysideways » Thu Jun 30, 2022 06:49

Ok, thanks for the advice, sounds good.
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by StefanS » Thu Jun 30, 2022 17:04

fullysideways wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 03:35
Also, right after smoking coated the salamis with a mold-600 solution
cold smoking or any smoking is some kind preventing method for mold growing. (of course after some time (like couple weeks) mold will grow but in reduced amount). Let us know how your mold is growing please.
Most of time I use Cure #2 only with large diameter casings. It contain nitrates and is not recommended for short time maturing. With 65 mm. you should be fine.
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by fullysideways » Fri Jul 01, 2022 18:27

Thanks StefanS for the cure information and like you said the mold on the smoked salami is much less than when I don't smoke the sausages but it is still there. I will attach a picture below. Please forgive my small charcuterie chamber as the main one is broken right now so I have to use the mini fridge as an emergency chamber :). You can see that the Coppa on the left has a lot of white mold vs the salami on the right that has been in the chamber almost a week now.

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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by fullysideways » Fri Jul 01, 2022 18:37

I had one other question about smoking before or after fermentation. Should I always smoke sausages after fermentation? I was smoking everything right after I stuffed the casings at the beginning of fermentation. I figured if I smoked it after fermentation it would allow the pH to drop further than I wanted. My process was to smoke the meat first at a temperature similar to the fermentation temperature, then continue the fermentation until the desired pH was reached, but I want to make sure there isn't a reason to not smoke the sausages first.
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by StefanS » Fri Jul 01, 2022 19:39

fullysideways wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 18:37
I figured if I smoked it after fermentation it would allow the pH to drop further than I wanted
how come?
LAB (lactic acid bacteria) is responsible for fermentation. It is converting sugars to lactic acid (mainly) without presence of oxygen. It also required right temperature for process. WE are doing it in very high humidity environmental mainly to prevent casing and outside diameter of baton from drying and forming dry ring. Usually it is done with humidity above 90%. So if you will smoke it first you will never achieve that humidity in smoking chamber (except commercial huge special smoking chambers). Secondly - controlling temperature in fermentation chamber is easier than in smoker.
Practically I was doing cold smoking couple days after fermentation. Sometimes I repeated smoking when salami was half done or weight loss was around 20-25% with purpose of enriched smoke taste and prevent mold, yeasts developing.
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by fullysideways » Fri Jul 01, 2022 20:51

I cold smoke usually during the day so the temperatures in the smoker are higher than my charcuterie chamber. The chamber temperatures are between 53 - 60 degrees and the temperature in the cold smoker is usually 80 degrees or even a bit higher. So if I smoke the salami after I ferment it then the fermentation would continue dropping the pH vs cooling off the salami in the chamber and slowing down the fermentation. But I like the idea of smoking it a few days later. I could then smoke it in the evening if it's cool out.

I'm guessing if I smoke it a few days later I should not put mold-600 on it to start because smoking the salami with mold growth on it seems like a thing not to do?
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by jcflorida » Sat Jul 02, 2022 00:27

fullysideways wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 20:51
if I smoke the salami after I ferment it then the fermentation would continue dropping the pH vs cooling off the salami in the chamber and slowing down the fermentation
If you look at the Chr Hansen Bactoferm(TM) Meat Manual Volume 1, figures 5 and 6 (pages 24 and 27) they give some limited information on the acidification profile of T-SPX as a function of temperature and the quantity of sugar. It has been my understanding that the "final" pH is more a function of the amount of sugar than the temperature, but I don't really know.

Anyway, here's a link to the Meat Manual if you don't already have it: https://netropolitan.co.nz/wp-content/u ... 141009.pdf
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by fullysideways » Sat Jul 02, 2022 01:19

Thanks jcflorida.
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by fullysideways » Mon Jul 04, 2022 00:03

Update on the Salami mold. It's filling out really well given it was smoked.

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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by StefanS » Fri Jul 08, 2022 02:20

fullysideways wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 00:03
It's filling out really well given it was smoked.
hmmm - start to think about fat smearing. (BTW you did not describe process of making that salami. Did you freeze fat before grinding?).
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Re: Smoked Salami pH question

Post by fullysideways » Tue Jul 12, 2022 23:12

I froze the meat and the fat before grinding. I ground it when it was not frozen solid but almost solid. I don't think I had a fat smearing issue. I did use pork belly which is softer than back fat but I have not noticed fat on the outside of the sausage or it leaking out of the casings where I pricked them... I'm thinking it may be because I didn't smoke them that long, only about 3 hours.
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