How NOT to make hotdogs

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Scogar
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How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by Scogar » Tue Apr 06, 2021 02:49

I made my first run of frankfurters this past weekend. I was very excited and looking forward to putting the bowl cutter through its paces. I read all that I could and was really aware of how my meat batter needed to remain really cold and when emulsified that I had an upper limit on my temp or else the emulsion would break. I paid attention to the additions of ice and even did my best to grind it into snow cone consistency. My goal was to use a bunch of pork that I had already cubed up and refroze for a sausage that unfortunately did not get made. So I lined up my beef and some venison grind that I had on hand and spent some time making the recipe, it was based off of Marianski's frankfurter recipe...here it is:

Total Meat Weight 7792 grams
Beef 27.50% 2143 grams
Venison 33.10% 2579 grams
Regular Pork Trimmings 19.10% 1488 grams
Fatty Pork Trimmings 16.60% 1293 grams
Fat 3.70% 288 grams
Salt 1.80% 140.3 grams
Cure #1 0.25% 19.5 grams
Paprika 0.20% 15.6 grams
White Pepper 0.20% 15.6 grams
Coriander 0.20% 15.6 grams
Nutmeg 0.10% 7.8 grams
Water 15.00% 1168.8 ml

Things went down from there...as I was running each of the meats separately through the 1/8 inch plate and putting them in the freezer it occurred to me that I hadn't considered whether my bowl cutter had the capacity to handle everything. You see the recipe was launched knowing I had to use 2579 g of venison and everything was dialed in from there. Well even having a Hobart 84141, 7800 g is a bit too much for about a 15 inch bowl cutter. I should have thought of this as I have done this with my mash tun when brewing once or twice. Shame on me but I'll figure it out!

Well when running what meat I could fit in it, that is less then the full amount was full capacity I was tripping a 20 amp circuit so often that I decided I was done!!! Anyway I got the red meat minced and with the 1/3 dose of snow I was seeing temps of 0°C so no issues there, but it was getting so bogged down with myosin that I had to pull some of the red meat to add the pork. This went on for 20-30 min as I kept adding semifrozen meat and ice crystals, and added 10,000 steps up and down stairs to reset the breaker. But in the end I had a very fine mix, not an emulsification but a microgrind if you will. So I decided to hand mix the mass from this point and that was fun!!

I convinced myself that a hot dog could handle the extra water and threw in the last 1/3 charge of snow, but since it was really food processor smashed ice cubes I had ice chips that ranged from sleet to dice size chunks. So with this I learned that now I would have huge pockets in my hotdogs that once carried an ice chunk. And I was able to enjoy the freezing of my sheep casings onto the sausage horn due to the ice chunks. Let's just say it was a long and frustrating day. This happened even though I was picking out the bigger chunks prior to adding the mass to the stuffer.

In the end, I think that I will go with 5lb batches until I dial in the recipe. But I know that I can keep my bowl cutter and the sausage mass temps where I need them with the ice charge. Also I think I will ensure that I continue to emulsify until I reach the upper limit...I think Redzed has a temp of 7°C but I would double check it. I would go to this temp to ensure my sheep casing peeled off the tube efficiently with less tearing, blow outs, and all ice incorporated.

But wait it's not over...

The next day, after a night resting in the refrigerator, it was time to smoke things, but alas I pushed the limits of the smoker too. A lot of the hotdogs were not able to get smoke and some heated up too much...oh well, better luck next time. Also i think I would go with a cold smoke and alot of rotation to ensure even coverage. Learned alot and have some mighty fine tasting hot doggyish sausages. Not proud but assume my learning curve was very steep.

Once off the smoker they went into a hot water bath of 160-165°F for 30 min. Here they are out of the bath...Image you can see a lot of areas that are missing smoke and maybe even some overheated areas. Here they are packaged up, in this pic they actually don't look half bad
Image the broken and short links are all in the pack on the right destined for franks and beans or some other fate.

Live and Learn I say but for one ray of hope I had a better run with my bratwurst that I made on Good Friday...delicious lunch at least during Saturday's frankfurter fiasco along with the classic...an Old Milwaukee
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by Albertaed » Tue Apr 06, 2021 13:50

Sorry you had so much trouble but I have to admit I had a good chuckle. :wink: Only because I had the same issues when I tried using a food processor. Meat paste and ice everywhere :lol: and a food processor that could handle the job. :twisted: At least clean up was a breeze :roll: :? It turned me off the whole frankfurter thing. I was hoping getting a bowl cutter might make things a bit more enjoyable so hopefully you can post a better experience next time.Keep us posted on your bowl cutter escapades!
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by Scogar » Tue Apr 06, 2021 14:34

Ed, I do think the bowl cutter will make a difference. I don't want to say overheating the meat isn't as big of an issue as it really is, but temp was the one issue I didn't face. I could se that I should have been able to run the bowl cutter for a significant time with the 3 ice charges. That would have been plenty of time to completely emulsify without overshooting my temps. I don't know how much quicker 2500 g vs 8000 g would have heated up. I now it would be quicker and of course there would be less ice, but I'm not sure if the temp to volume curve is linear or whatnot.

Not sure I'll have the chance to run it again before the garage heats up too much but if I do, it will likely be for a run of Münchner Weißwurst
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by fatboyz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 14:43

I have a 14" OLD Hobart and I run about 8-9 pounds through it at a time. I then just dump all the batches into a lug and give them a quick hand mix to combine the batches. Wet your hands or use nitrile gloves. THe batter is like real sticky pudding. Temp wise you can take it up to 11 or 12C without the emulsion breaking down. I Mix venison, then pork, then the back fat. Also you should add a little phosphate to the mix as well. Here is what a nice hotdog emulsion should look like.
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by Scogar » Tue Apr 06, 2021 14:50

So Fatboyz do you run separate batches of the venison, pork, and back fat, i.e., for 16 pounds making two V, P, BF blended batches that are subsequently combined? Or do you run let's say the venison through first toss it into a lug and then run the pork and backfat together and toss this into the lug? I would think the former would work better than the latter, but I may be overthinking things here as well
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by DanMcG » Tue Apr 06, 2021 23:45

I think we've all had days like that, but all in all your sausage looks good from here. Better luck next time!
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by fatboyz » Wed Apr 07, 2021 01:45

Scogar wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 14:50
So Fatboyz do you run separate batches of the venison, pork, and back fat, i.e., for 16 pounds making two V, P, BF blended batches that are subsequently combined? Or do you run let's say the venison through first toss it into a lug and then run the pork and backfat together and toss this into the lug? I would think the former would work better than the latter, but I may be overthinking things here as well
I basically make 8 pound batches of hot dogs. 3 pounds venison, 2 pork, and 1 pound back fat. I use ice water, about 500 g per batch. I usually make 3- 8 pound batches, then a quick mix to give me basically 25 pounds. I like a decent size hot dog so I use the specific permeable plastic hot dog casing. It's a royal PITA to use, but for small batches they're great. Remember the old days when you could buy bulk wieners in the store in the plastic casings. After cooling them I clip them all to individual then pop them in a sink of hot water and the casing just slips off. THis is the casing I use, it's called "Fast Peal"
https://www.halfordsmailorder.com/wiener-casings
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by redzed » Wed Apr 07, 2021 03:17

I also learned the hard way when I first got my "5kg" Chinese chopper. There is no way it will handle 5kg. So what I do now is add the spices to the cubed meat and fat and grind though the 3mm plate and then chop/emulsify in 2.5kg batches. I add finely crushed ice and take the temp as up to 12C which will give you a better texture. With all the work, the mess and the clean up, I always ask myself why am doing this? And then a couple of months later, I'm back at it.
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by fatboyz » Wed Apr 07, 2021 14:35

Scogar wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 14:34
Ed, I do think the bowl cutter will make a difference. I don't want to say overheating the meat isn't as big of an issue as it really is, but temp was the one issue I didn't face. I could se that I should have been able to run the bowl cutter for a significant time with the 3 ice charges. That would have been plenty of time to completely emulsify without overshooting my temps. I don't know how much quicker 2500 g vs 8000 g would have heated up. I now it would be quicker and of course there would be less ice, but I'm not sure if the temp to volume curve is linear or whatnot.

Not sure I'll have the chance to run it again before the garage heats up too much but if I do, it will likely be for a run of Münchner Weißwurst
Do you mean Weisswurst? That's one of my favorites. I use frozen or ice cold milk instead of ice. I also add lemon zest and raw onion! A staple here and that and hotdogs are the reason I go through all the work of cleaning and fussing with the silent cutter! Like Red said above, a lot of work, but man the final product is sure worth it! I also made this poacher specifically for cooking Bratwurst and Weisswurst.
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by Scogar » Wed Apr 07, 2021 15:57

Hi Fatboyz, yes weisswurst. I have eaten it a bunch in Munich. Over there they have a breakfast https://c8.alamy.com/compde/gkbwh3/baye ... gkbwh3.jpg that consists of a half liter of hefeweizen, bavarian pretzels, weisswurst and sweet mustard. I have not yet mastered the pretzels but I am hopefully on my way (key ingredient is food grade lye perhaps even more maligned than nitrite, if that's possible). And I have not attempted the weisswurst yet as finding veal is not extremely easy. But if I invest the time in actually asking, I'm sure I can source it quickly. But first I'll need to put together another batch of hefeweizen.

And nice poacher, I made one into my brewpot for homebrew sometime back in the 80s
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by Scogar » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:43

I'm about a dozen frankfurters in and I have to say they are pretty tasty, so my misadventures aside I consider it a success. Parents and spouse have both had their fair share, only grilled though. And people rave, I think they are a tad dry....So the recipe is good for a lot of people but why wouldn't it be? It started with Marianski and may have had some tweaks by the guys on this site, I don't recall off the top of my head.

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I personally am looking for more of a pork based product but wanted to follow one of the Marianski recipes to start...Hot Dog, Frankfurter, Wiener, etc. Next time I will shoot for a less beefy version so will probably lean more toward Germany. I'm sure the added venison beefed up the taste as well and heck the beef/venison was 60% but even the alternatives are close to that. Other than knackwurst, I haven't seen a recipe or am unfamiliar with the traditional "wiener" that is predominantly pork
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by Albertaed » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:47

Looks good 👍
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by Lorenzoid » Fri Apr 16, 2021 15:08

I can almost smell it. Fantastic.
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by DanMcG » Sat Apr 17, 2021 09:37

Scogar wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:43
Other than knackwurst, I haven't seen a recipe or am unfamiliar with the traditional "wiener" that is predominantly pork
In Marianski's "The Greatest Sausage Recipes" they have a wiener recipe that is only 20% lean beef and the rest is pork semi-fat, back fat and belly or jowl.
I'm with you, I prefer a more predominate pork hot dog myself, and still searching for the perfect one.
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Re: How NOT to make hotdogs

Post by Scogar » Sat Apr 17, 2021 13:03

That one and the German book are the only two sausage books I believe I haven't bought.....yet. I know most of the info is out there on Meats and Sausages but due to their generosity, thoroughness, and the bit of a collector in me, I am happy to support them with my wallet as well.
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